(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/joseywales10/1952penny_l2_zps2d8e4dfb.jpg)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/joseywales10/1952penny_m1_zps4cbebde1.jpg)
Trying to get an idea of the relative scarcity of the 1952 Perth serifs in UNC.
How would you rate the square, wedge and tilted 2 in UNC ?
All very tough; the square serif tougher than the other two.
May I suggest that you trim the coins to show only the figures that are in question. The above scans are good but hard to compare one to the other.
goldie
I think that you have to know the 1952 varieties to pick them easily
and for me the whole coin shows the die variety better
once you know the tilts etc you can spot them in a flicker
maybe a smaller image of the whole coin with the images side by side would be great for comparison
echida
the 1952 square in unc is I think a very scarce find
are you selling?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='39900' dateline='1390018695'goldie
I think that you have to know the 1952 varieties to pick them easily
and for me the whole coin shows the die variety better
once you know the tilts etc you can spot them in a flicker
maybe a smaller image of the whole coin with the images side by side would be great for comparison
echida
the 1952 square in unc is I think a very scarce find
are you selling?
Yes - the idea is to get the three varieties together (in MS) to sell as a group.
The square serif in the pic is graded 63RB, tilted is 62BN plus a wedge in the pipeline that might get 62BN.
Sorry but I can't see the difference between the two coins pictured.
Maybe I am not "into coins" enough to pick these things out.
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='39902' dateline='1390019341'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='39900' dateline='1390018695'goldie
I think that you have to know the 1952 varieties to pick them easily
and for me the whole coin shows the die variety better
once you know the tilts etc you can spot them in a flicker
maybe a smaller image of the whole coin with the images side by side would be great for comparison
echida
the 1952 square in unc is I think a very scarce find
are you selling?
Yes - the idea is to get the three varieties together (in MS) to sell as a group.
The square serif in the pic is graded 63RB, tilted is 62BN plus a wedge in the pipeline that might get 62BN.
I'm with Robbiegal on this, you have to see the whole coin to see the tilt and the square serif is obvious without a blow up.
Will the slabs specify the varieties and did you have to pay extra to get them slabbed?
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='39904' dateline='1390019933'Sorry but I can't see the difference between the two coins pictured.
Maybe I am not "into coins" enough to pick these things out.
I think the flick on the end of the baseline of the 2 is the difference.
I haven't done a lot reading on all the 1952 penny date varieties but I know there are a lot.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='39924' dateline='1390034679'Quote from: 'echidna' pid='39902' dateline='1390019341'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='39900' dateline='1390018695'goldie
I think that you have to know the 1952 varieties to pick them easily
and for me the whole coin shows the die variety better
once you know the tilts etc you can spot them in a flicker
maybe a smaller image of the whole coin with the images side by side would be great for comparison
echida
the 1952 square in unc is I think a very scarce find
are you selling?
Yes - the idea is to get the three varieties together (in MS) to sell as a group.
The square serif in the pic is graded 63RB, tilted is 62BN plus a wedge in the pipeline that might get 62BN.
I'm with Robbiegal on this, you have to see the whole coin to see the tilt and the square serif is obvious without a blow up.
Will the slabs specify the varieties and did you have to pay extra to get them slabbed?
Except for the 42 penny without the I and 42 halfpenny large denticles PCGS don't specify such varieties.
So the cost is the same.
I'd like to see a catalogue for these recognized varieties in MS.
I have a number of similar ones (all PCGS graded) and its very difficult to work out values when selling.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='39925' dateline='1390034797'Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='39904' dateline='1390019933'Sorry but I can't see the difference between the two coins pictured.
Maybe I am not "into coins" enough to pick these things out.
I think the flick on the end of the baseline of the 2 is the difference.
I haven't done a lot reading on all the 1952 penny date varieties but I know there are a lot.
that first one - the 2 tilts to the right
the second one has a square on what should be a pointed or flat end to the number 2 . some say it is a die chip
close ups
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/1952penny_m1_zps4cbebde12_zps4deb98c3.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/1952penny_l2_zps2d8e4dfb2_zpsd265ec9c.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/1952penny_l2_zps2d8e4dfb2_zps83cadda5.jpg)
Echidna, if they don't specifically recognise those varieties then is there a work around? I've seen slabs that have the coin grade on one line and a second line with the name of the collector/collection (such as "Marvin Mitchell") or with details such as "struck on foreign planchet". So if collectors can ask to have other details included then why not ask for the extra line to say "Square Footed 2"; that way the image of the slab on ebay will enable variety collectors to bid accordingly.
Once PCGS sees that collectors want the varieties recognised and that they sell for a higher price (earning them more slabbing fees) then they will (hopefully) respond and specifically cover date varieties, English/Indians, 55 mules etc.
maybe the varieties collectors don't necessarily want to be paying more just because PCGS identify those sorts of die variety
a varieties collector knows what they want and can recognise it on the coin and in an auction setting they may very well be prepared to go higher
at some point collectors don't need to keep paying more just because PCGS up the anti on slabbing costs as well
outpricing the more common coins will kill collecting and make it no more than in an investment option rather than an interesting hobby for more folk out there
I guess that's what happens when items of scarcity are given recognition, not only is there a transmission of knowledge, they become more desirable. Unfortunately their cost then increases, but if the track record of Australia's two main coin bibles is any indication of how fast this will occur, I wouldn't be getting too concerned just yet as both publications fail miserably in the relevancy of their listings, or should I say lack of, when it comes to the rarer but well known Australian pre decimal varieties.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='39934' dateline='1390048635'Echidna, if they don't specifically recognise those varieties then is there a work around? I've seen slabs that have the coin grade on one line and a second line with the name of the collector/collection (such as "Marvin Mitchell") or with details such as "struck on foreign planchet". So if collectors can ask to have other details included then why not ask for the extra line to say "Square Footed 2"; that way the image of the slab on ebay will enable variety collectors to bid accordingly.
Once PCGS sees that collectors want the varieties recognised and that they sell for a higher price (earning them more slabbing fees) then they will (hopefully) respond and specifically cover date varieties, English/Indians, 55 mules etc.
I've seen the slabs you mention but my guess is that they would not add details that suggest the coin is a variety.
I'd like to see them recognized by PCGS.
I think the first step would be a proper variety catalogue.
There has been lots of good research but its fragmented and needs to be brought together professionally.
Robbiegal: Thanks for showing the variety on this coin.
no worries GS
it took me a fair time to get my head around the '52's & those jolly Indian dies
fortunately for me the hubby collected them and took a real interest (a few years back , he has other priorities now)
he and Fred lever communicated a bit on those and the dot movements in other years, so I was lucky to be around such discourse
there are some really keen '52 collectors out there - hence I often purchased auction penny lots that have been full of the 52's with not a single error or variety - to my disappointment!
I see it. I couldn't at first but then looking at the point at the left corner,it is easy to pick it. Other than that, i found it very hard to spot.
I think I should go through ll my '52 1pennies, again. So much fun.
you'll have fun lacey
you need a loupe - it helps
and then try to sort them into the different looking 2's at first - you will be surprised how many there are
then you might be able to pick out the leans left & then right, the serif pointed tail, the wedge and the square
rennicks (I think) has picture of the varieties but one is often coded incorrectly
I have rows and rows of these types (ex the square that is scarcer) but the high grade in these varieties is the challenge
http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=1952A_penny
On the old ozrountable forum I wrote a detailed explanation of how these arose.
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='39977' dateline='1390111895'http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=1952A_penny
On the old ozrountable forum I wrote a detailed explanation of how these arose.
Can you link to that Peter?
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='39977' dateline='1390111895'http://www.thesandpit.net/index.php?option=1952A_penny
On the old ozrountable forum I wrote a detailed explanation of how these arose.
ta for that
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='39942' dateline='1390055891'I think the first step would be a proper variety catalogue.
There has been lots of good research but its fragmented and needs to be brought together professionally.
I agree but no doubt easy to say, hard to do. A lot of good work can be found here in this forum. I often stumble on it while searching like I did just now.
I believe there are three pointed serif dies as seen below. The second last pic is IMHO the parent of the square serif.
2 tilts right. Note the wavy top on the foot. Overall a finer font. Smaller dot after A in AUSTRALIA.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1952A_Penny_rev__2_tilts_right.JPG)
Aligned 2. Note the wave is less pronounced. Overall a slightly heavier font. Larger oval dot after A in AUSTRALIA.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1952A_Penny_rev__Pointed_serif_2.JPG)
Aligned 2. Note the crook of the 2 turns back on itself more than the previous two examples. Large round dot after A in AUSTRALIA. I believe this is the parent of the square serif below.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1952A_Penny_rev__Pointed_serif_2__Parent_of_square_serif.JPG)
Square serif. Large round dot after A in AUSTRALIA. IMO a descendant of coin above.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10064/1952A_Penny_rev__Square_serif_2.JPG)
Another chore to do. :)