A couple of interesting auctions finishing today:
1958 Shilling, one of two at MS67.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1958-M-Australia-Shilling-PCGS-MS67-/281192143131?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item41785b991b&_uhb=1
1955M Penny PR67RD - Single Highest Graded realised US$8100.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1955-M-Australia-Penny-PCGS-PR67-Red-Pop-1-0-Finest-Known-/271302525284?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3f2ae40164&_uhb=1
top pop coins get the big dollars , from people looking to keep on top of the set registry , which btw is a great idea to settle who has the best sets out there , the grade point average does not lie
I love how they are from los angles
I wonder if either will be repatriated? Probably unlikely.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='32652' dateline='1382937497'I wonder if either will be repatriated? Probably unlikely.
There's only one person I know that pays that much for Aussie coins that lives in the USA. The others are here. So there's a good chance they'll be coming home.
very nice proof penny , i knocked off work early to watch that sellers listings , did have a few bids on his silver proofs , bum , bum , bum no hope i should have stayed at work lol
true belly boy
what is that old expression?
don't roll the dice
if you can't pay the price
but it never hurts to have a nibble, just in case you get a lucky strike
where do these blokes get the money?
these auctions are certainly one way to make a person feel totally inferior
If they don't make it home now they will eventually I'm sure as most collectors of australian coins live in Australia (I assume) with a smattering (when it comes to pre-decimal coins) residing in the US, Canada, UK and Hong Kong.
I spotted that stuff days ago and put in bids on most of it. Didn't win any as too rich for my blood. Whoever won that shilling at $3800 was really intent on winning, he had 2 higher bids just in case. So what will Maccas show for gem next year?
I believe that these PCGS prices do not influence Maccas one iota
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='32677' dateline='1382949830'I believe that these PCGS prices do not influence Maccas one iota
They should, they represent the top of the market. May as well drop the Gem pricing column as for many coins the cream has been slabbed and what hasn't been slabbed has problems. Even if choice raw coins are out there their value is what they are worth slabbed and not the other way round.
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='32683' dateline='1382950566'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='32677' dateline='1382949830'I believe that these PCGS prices do not influence Maccas one iota
They should, they represent the top of the market. May as well drop the Gem pricing column as for many coins the cream has been slabbed and what hasn't been slabbed has problems. Even if choice raw coins are out there their value is what they are worth slabbed and not the other way round.
Or perhaps just replace the unc, choice etc by the Sheldon scale. After all that is the system being used by those who pay the big prices for condition-rare coins.
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='32690' dateline='1382955180'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='32683' dateline='1382950566'Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='32677' dateline='1382949830'I believe that these PCGS prices do not influence Maccas one iota
They should, they represent the top of the market. May as well drop the Gem pricing column as for many coins the cream has been slabbed and what hasn't been slabbed has problems. Even if choice raw coins are out there their value is what they are worth slabbed and not the other way round.
Or perhaps just replace the unc, choice etc by the Sheldon scale. After all that is the system being used by those who pay the big prices for condition-rare coins.
I don't think you can use the Sheldon scale for copper as much, as so much has to do with colour and often people pay very different amounts for a coin graded the same, i.e. a 64RB coin can be almost fully brown or almost fully red.
Maccas price's aren't too far off, the problem is some grading used by 'SOME' dealers and auction houses is just way way off. When coins which are graded acurately actually appear they come close to catalogue prices.
I bought in a nicely toned silver coin into an auction house once and was told they would call it UNC with original old tone, but the auctioneer told me he would be happy to dip it for me and call it blast white choice UNC and it would get a better price at auction, I have never consigned anything with that auction house following that and am very weary buying from them. Had it been consigned it probably would have made the catalogue UNC price which would be right on, problem is that it would have been described incorrectly.
PCGS prices can be super high because it is condition rare, the other difference is coins become FDC not GEM in many cases, and Maccas doesn't have FDC prices for most coins.
Quotebut the auctioneer told me he would be happy to dip it for me and call it blast white choice UNC and it would get a better price at auction
You should of kicked him fair in the Nuts just for the suggestion :ok:
PCGS doesn't have a Vested interest in any of the coins they grade.
They simply call them as they see them :angel:
I am SOOO tired of the "Old School" dealers that dip and polish coins simply to improve the saleability of their coins.
I have bought many a coin "Slabbed" and it has been assessed by experts not shysters and I feel comfortable with these coins in my collections :good:
The Major TPG's are making the run of the mill dealers and eBay sellers very nervous because they can't compete and rip off buyers anymore, and IMHO that is a good thing :wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='32692' dateline='1382955993'I don't think you can use the Sheldon scale for copper as much, as so much has to do with colour and often people pay very different amounts for a coin graded the same, i.e. a 64RB coin can be almost fully brown or almost fully red.
It's only on occasion you get an RB for a coin with 90% red that fetches well beyond an RB price. Most of the coins the Sheldon system does fine. There's also a problem around AU58 too, the range of the grade it too big: you can get coins which are otherwise MS63 but with slight wear or harshly marked coins with only traces of wear and they both make AU58.
At the end of the day, a price reference is only there to provide a baseline value - if the coin has some quality superior to the average example of the grade, then expect to pay more.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='32711' dateline='1382960757'Quotebut the auctioneer told me he would be happy to dip it for me and call it blast white choice UNC and it would get a better price at auction
You should of kicked him fair in the Nuts just for the suggestion :ok:
PCGS doesn't have a Vested interest in any of the coins they grade.
They simply call them as they see them :angel:
I am SOOO tired of the "Old School" dealers that dip and polish coins simply to improve the saleability of their coins.
I have bought many a coin "Slabbed" and it has been assessed by experts not shysters and I feel comfortable with these coins in my collections :good:
The Major TPG's are making the run of the mill dealers and eBay sellers very nervous because they can't compete and rip off buyers anymore, and IMHO that is a good thing :wavemulticolor:
They'll go out of business while the honest or at least more honest sellers will thrive, whether they sell slabbed coins or not. I don't care how people sell slab or not slab coins as long as I am happy with the coin.
As for the 1958 shilling and in particular the 1955 proof penny:drooling:
I've got a 1955M proof in my hand at the moment which we're comparing to that one on ebay. I reckon its every bit as good.
But...
Its not slabbed.
So, using that one as an example (because I can't get a decent pic of this one right now), how much value do you guys reckon the slab adds?
Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='32715' dateline='1382962667'Quote from: 'trout' pid='32711' dateline='1382960757'Quotebut the auctioneer told me he would be happy to dip it for me and call it blast white choice UNC and it would get a better price at auction
You should of kicked him fair in the Nuts just for the suggestion :ok:
PCGS doesn't have a Vested interest in any of the coins they grade.
They simply call them as they see them :angel:
I am SOOO tired of the "Old School" dealers that dip and polish coins simply to improve the saleability of their coins.
I have bought many a coin "Slabbed" and it has been assessed by experts not shysters and I feel comfortable with these coins in my collections :good:
The Major TPG's are making the run of the mill dealers and eBay sellers very nervous because they can't compete and rip off buyers anymore, and IMHO that is a good thing :wavemulticolor:
They'll go out of business while the honest or at least more honest sellers will thrive, whether they sell slabbed coins or not. I don't care how people sell slab or not slab coins as long as I am happy with the coin.
As for the 1958 shilling and in particular the 1955 proof penny:drooling:
Buy the coin. Always buy the coin.
Coins with better eye appeal will always sell for more than coins of the same grade that have lesser eye appeal; if they have outstanding eye appeal they can sell for more than coins of a higher grade and lesser eye appeal.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='33769' dateline='1383991207'I've got a 1955M proof in my hand at the moment which we're comparing to that one on ebay. I reckon its every bit as good.
But...
Its not slabbed.
So, using that one as an example (because I can't get a decent pic of this one right now), how much value do you guys reckon the slab adds?
The slab adds value by adding certainty, it has been graded by someone with no vested interest in the coin.
If that same coin went to auction raw it wouldn't make $8k but there would be a bidding war over it.
1955 Melbourne pennies can be found red but are hard to find without excessive die polishing which is why so many grade 64/65.
If you find a 1917 penny raw (as an example) which you think will grade MS64rb, in its raw state people will generally bid one grade below what they actually think it will grade at pcgs. So raw it is actually worth a MS63rb slabbed price. It goes both ways though, some coins are very harshly graded for what they are and in those cases the eye appeal of the coin is more important than the grade (like the below link).
http://www.icollector.com/1925-Penny_i12970215
In some instances people pay crazy prices for a number (i.e. $11k for a 1944 sixpence) but in the case of the 1955 penny it would be a combination of the slab grade and the eye appeal of the coin.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='33769' dateline='1383991207'I've got a 1955M proof in my hand at the moment which we're comparing to that one on ebay. I reckon its every bit as good.
I have heard this catch-cry many, many, many times and in almost every case "every bit as good" has turned out to be anything but. This is no slight on the coin, the owner of the coin, or you. It's simply because PCGS do not use the same system for grading coins that is commonly used here in Australia. And it's difficult to get a handle on the system they use without looking at a lot of graded coins and understanding why those coins are graded the way they do.
All that being said if the owner of the coin thinks it's every bit as good as the eBay one then he/she is throwing money away NOT sending it.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='33798' dateline='1384034492'I have heard this catch-cry many, many, many times and in almost every case "every bit as good" has turned out to be anything but.
I drove down here loaded for bear... brought along my magnifiers including the cud-o-scope. Under close examination his coin shows absolutely no detracting marks of any sort, so although I have zero expertise in grading, I can compare what I see to what the pics on ebay showed and I don't think he got ripped off. The coin came from a reputable source via one of the major auctions I believe.
That said, this is not about that coin, per se. Its about whether or not it should go on an overseas holiday, and by extension whether its siblings should accompany it if it did. I very much doubt any part of this collection would ever be sold... certainly not by the owner at least. So the intent would not be to make money. Rather its about whether slabs would enhance the collection. I really don't know what to say, because I'm very much in two minds about it. For lesser coins, my opinion of slabs is pretty well known here... but these are exemplary coins worth an absolute fortune, which I suspect just might be prime candidates for coffins. :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='33816' dateline='1384040960'I very much doubt any part of this collection would ever be sold... certainly not by the owner at least.
As I said to trout it's not just his/her own pockets he's robbing it's those of his/her inheritors. If you don't plan on selling your own collection then the least you can do is make it as easy as possible for those who inherit your collection to sell it. And maximise the sale price. Getting coins slabbed by PCGS will help this. Of course, not all coins are worth it. Not even the majority are worth it. But the great coins in a collection? You owe it to yourself and your descendants to do it.
It's also about how you like your coins displayed and stored. Personally I like having my coins slabbed where they are hopefully pretty well protected, can be put in display cases if needed and with images online. Having said that I also have some un-slabbed coins (mainly decimal) which I prefer to have that way and/or wouldn't be worth slabbing.
Just remember some coins have characteristics that will make them grade well by auction house standards but will get them sent back with a very low grade with PCGS. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions though, just my 2 cents worth.
Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='33827' dateline='1384045531'Just remember some coins have characteristics that will make them grade well by auction house standards but will get them sent back with a very low grade with PCGS.
Very true indeed. I was reading (with some amusement) the descriptions for an up-coming online auction being held by an Australian dealer. Not sure which one. But the dealer clearly wasn't happy with the grades because every second description started with "NGC (or PCGS) made a mistake with this one because the coin is clearly better than the grade indicates....".
Quote from: 'markn' pid='33819' dateline='1384042586'But the great coins in a collection? You owe it to yourself and your descendants to do it.
I am sure their will be many changes to certified coins in the 30 to 40 years that I have left before I drop off the perch. We've already seen the introduction of the "+" designation. Who knows what other changes will happen in the next 40 years. My guess is that there will be a computer program that will scan a coin and give it a grading.
So in short, I will be waiting 30 years or so before I worry about slabbing my coins. I'm not going to go through all the hassle and expense now. and then have to do it all over again in 30 years.
Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='33827' dateline='1384045531'It's also about how you like your coins displayed and stored.
Indeed. I wish I were allowed to post pictures of the coin vault... you would all be foaming at the mouth, trust me.
Heirs both have zero interest, and will have to wait at least four or five decades to get their mitts on this lot anyway, so that's not an immediate concern either.
But the display value may well be the decider I think. This little box doesn't do them justice IMO. That I've got pics of, and should be allowed to post, so you'll see what I mean.
Interesting comment about the different grading standards though. I would think worst case would be sending off something you think is a 68, you bought as a 68 or equivalent, and having it come back with a lesser grade. Even though it would have no monetary significance in this case, it would still be devastating, like when I found a black scrape on my nice shiny new car... it was never the same after that. :(
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='33834' dateline='1384050394'Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='33827' dateline='1384045531'It's also about how you like your coins displayed and stored.
Indeed. I wish I were allowed to post pictures of the coin vault... you would all be foaming at the mouth, trust me.
Heirs both have zero interest, and will have to wait at least four or five decades to get their mitts on this lot anyway, so that's not an immediate concern either.
But the display value may well be the decider I think. This little box doesn't do them justice IMO. That I've got pics of, and should be allowed to post, so you'll see what I mean.
Interesting comment about the different grading standards though. I would think worst case would be sending off something you think is a 68, you bought as a 68 or equivalent, and having it come back with a lesser grade. Even though it would have no monetary significance in this case, it would still be devastating, like when I found a black scrape on my nice shiny new car... it was never the same after that. :(
Just remember until you send coins off to pcgs it's hard to know how your coins will grade, either in the positive or negative, or spot on as you yourself have graded them.
Here is one example, descried by IAG as ch-unc/gem, however I know for a fact that this coin was previously slabbed by ngc as 'AU details (cleaned)'.
http://www.iagauctions.com/pba/product.php?lot_id=7202
Dcoin, I believe you've got the overdates mixed up.
The previous lot http://www.iagauctions.com/pba/product.php?lot_id=6901 is a cleaned about unc 1934/3 , the coin you mentioned (http://www.iagauctions.com/pba/product.php?lot_id=7202) is an MS64.
Quote from: 'emu666' pid='33856' dateline='1384069815'Dcoin, I believe you've got the overdates mixed up.
The previous lot http://www.iagauctions.com/pba/product.php?lot_id=6901 is a cleaned about unc 1934/3 , the coin you mentioned (http://www.iagauctions.com/pba/product.php?lot_id=7202) is an MS64.
Ah yes I did get them mixed up.
Quote from: 'dcoin' pid='33850' dateline='1384066586'Just remember until you send coins off to pcgs it's hard to know how your coins will grade, either in the positive or negative, or spot on as you yourself have graded them.
very true
the last 3 that I sent over through a friend came back with two one grade higher than I anticipated and another one being one grade lower than I anticipated
2 out of 3 ain't bad! ha ha
mind you not proofs
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='33834' dateline='1384050394'Interesting comment about the different grading standards though. I would think worst case would be sending off something you think is a 68, you bought as a 68 or equivalent, and having it come back with a lesser grade. Even though it would have no monetary significance in this case, it would still be devastating, like when I found a black scrape on my nice shiny new car... it was never the same after that. :(
If it's only PR67 then the certification hasn't changed that, you've just been made aware of it. It's like your shiny new car always had that scratch, but you've only just noticed it.
Just on the phone with Phil (who never seems to log in here), and he tells me he just bought a 1955M Proof out of the states, which he reckons might even grade PR68RD. Now wouldn't THAT be nice?
I just said that he should post piccies.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='105076' dateline='1486604499'Just on the phone with Phil (who never seems to log in here), and he tells me he just bought a 1955M Proof out of the states, which he reckons might even grade PR68RD. Now wouldn't THAT be nice?
I just said that he should post piccies.
WOW.
If he is correct about the grade that is a fantastic acquisition :yahoo:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='105078' dateline='1486604882'If he is correct about the grade that is a fantastic acquisition :yahoo:
All the more so when you look at the shitty ebay pics. Small, fuzzy, and the mount makes it look like crap. Apparently the seller has no clue. His brother died in the 60's, and he got the collection and stashed it until now. Phil took a punt, and may have scored a big win. :)
Now to see about the rest of the collection. :angel: