Well when I was a kid finders keepers meant exactly that so I was wondering how much money value before your suppose to hand it in as handing in a hand full of coin wouldn't go down well one would thing..and who did killed bambi :scratch_one-s_head:
depends on how much you found
and how much vested interest the mob has in getting it back
I was just thinking about finding money and how they all say now to take it to the cops but then I thought well how much is it 'cause they'd laugh at you if you kept going in every time you found 5 cent but then thought well I wonder what it is, is it $5, 10 20 50 or over $100 not that I'm that lucky to find anything of great value.
and what about bambi :-/
Interesting question.
You only ever hear about sackfuls of cash. Or wallets. I think I'd consider it mine unless it was a distinctive amount or packaging. Notes and coins wandering about in the wild are fair game. Somebody's life savings or hard-earned bank heist proceeds aren't.
Oh, and Bambi is delicious. Or so I hear... :diablo:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30696' dateline='1381615895'Well when I was a kid finders keepers meant exactly that so I was wondering how much money value before your suppose to hand it in as handing in a hand full of coin wouldn't go down well one would thing..and who did killed bambi :scratch_one-s_head:
Why do you ask AJ, have you finally finished the tunnel into Fulvios Vault ? :diablo::laugh2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='30705' dateline='1381618999'have you finally finished the tunnel into Fulvios Vault ?
What? What?
WHAT?
Nooooo... not my
precious!
Unleash the Hounds! Launch the Alert Fighters! Push the Big Red Button!
Dastardly fiends!
QuoteUnleash the Hounds! Launch the Alert Fighters! Push the Big Red Button!
I just saw 2 Cats followed by 3 budgies come out of your house and all the sprinklers just came on. :yahoo:
Crikey the sprinklers just wet all the budgies feathers so they are unable to fly and the Cats are eating them now :diablo::laugh2:
that's it trout..last time a tell you a secret..don't worry about that scratching sound Fulvio it's nothing mate :laugh2:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30696' dateline='1381615895'Well when I was a kid finders keepers meant exactly that so I was wondering how much money value before your suppose to hand it in as handing in a hand full of coin wouldn't go down well one would thing..and who did killed bambi :scratch_one-s_head:
I believe the law in Australia is $5 and up.
In theory if nobody claims the property within 3 months then it is yours.
In practice you have to be cynical about the chances of the cops giving it to you. I used to work in a recycling plant and you would find heaps of wallets, purses, housekeys and cash. I only ever handed stuff in if there was something important inside (like a current passport) or something sentimental (an old photo of somebody) and then only if there was some identification.
Nothing worse than getting stuff that was obviously tossed out by staff in a nursing home and finding depression era mementos or even WW1 portraits of young soldiers. One time there was a box of old jewellry that looked like the good stuff was removed, but the "costume" stuff included some silver and even platinum pieces were still there, plus some obvious Jewish stuff (Star of David, things with Hebrew on them).
Sometimes people found wads of cash, biggest amount that I found out about was a bag of cash (well over $100,000), the guy handed it in to the cops and then when it wasn't claimed within 3 months the cops decided to keep it (on the spurious logic that if it wasn't claimed then it must be dirty money).
At another recycling place that I worked an Indian guy found a coin album, but he threw it away because it was all old money.
As if you would throw away old coin albums?
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30746' dateline='1381638986'As if you would throw away old coin albums?
People do stupid things all the time.
I believe the law in Australia is $5 and up.
In theory if nobody claims the property within 3 months then it is yours.
In practice you have to be cynical about the chances of the cops giving it to you. I used to work in a recycling plant and you would find heaps of wallets, purses, housekeys and cash. I only ever handed stuff in if there was something important inside (like a current passport) or something sentimental (an old photo of somebody) and then only if there was some identification.
Nothing worse than getting stuff that was obviously tossed out by staff in a nursing home and finding depression era mementos or even WW1 portraits of young soldiers. One time there was a box of old jewellry that looked like the good stuff was removed, but the "costume" stuff included some silver and even platinum pieces were still there, plus some obvious Jewish stuff (Star of David, things with Hebrew on them).
Sometimes people found wads of cash, biggest amount that I found out about was a bag of cash (well over $100,000), the guy handed it in to the cops and then when it wasn't claimed within 3 months the cops decided to keep it (on the spurious logic that if it wasn't claimed then it must be dirty money).
At another recycling place that I worked an Indian guy found a coin album, but he threw it away because it was all old money.
[/quote]
Cool, thanks mate. When I was on council I found a purse in a bin and took it to the cops and they didn't seem like they really cared so the next one I found the lady was lucky because I'd worked at the hospital just before so I knew exactly who she was and where I could find her and she was so greatful as she was in the process of cancelling everything. Yes I have lost wallet so I know how much of a pain it is and worse if you lose it away from home.
Can't speak for any other State but in Qld, if the owner cannot be located, the Police must return the property to the person who lawful handed it to them providing it's lawful for them to have it (eg they're not going to give a bag of dope back to you). If they don't want to do that then they have to apply to a Justice for an order to retain it after 30 days. The finder can also make application to a Court for an order for it's return and for $100,000 cash that's what I'd be doing.
There's no "official" limit on what you can keep without reporting it but there's also a public interest policy and for minor amounts no one cares much.
If the cash is found by an employee at work then there's another dispute about who the claimant is. Unless there's an agreement between the employer and employee then it belongs to the employer. The reason being that you didn't find it as an individual but in the normal course of your work.
There's no doubt police employees (not necessarily a police officer) do sometimes misappropriate property either through laziness or outright dishonesty but fortunately it is the exception rather than the rule. There are many opportunities but you have to trust them sometime and if it occurs often enough they will get caught out eventually.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='30761' dateline='1381643206'Can't speak for any other State but in Qld, if the owner cannot be located, the Police must return the property to the person who lawful handed it to them providing it's lawful for them to have it (eg they're not going to give a bag of dope back to you). If they don't want to do that then they have to apply to a Justice for an order to retain it after 30 days. The finder can also make application to a Court for an order for it's return and for $100,000 cash that's what I'd be doing.
There's no "official" limit on what you can keep without reporting it but there's also a public interest policy and for minor amounts no one cares much.
If the cash is found by an employee at work then there's another dispute about who the claimant is. Unless there's an agreement between the employer and employee then it belongs to the employer. The reason being that you didn't find it as an individual but in the normal course of your work.
There's no doubt police employees (not necessarily a police officer) do sometimes misappropriate property either through laziness or outright dishonesty but fortunately it is the exception rather than the rule. There are many opportunities but you have to trust them sometime and if it occurs often enough they will get caught out eventually.
Yes, we were supposed to hand valuables in to the company as their property (but nobody did).
I'm not sure why you think dishonest cops are the exception, it is a coin forum so I won't go in to things that a few ex cop friends have told me.
If you do retain an item over the $5 amount then you can be charged with larceny (at least in NSW).
You would be amazed at what people throw out. Cases of imported booze, 19th century books, old sterling silverware, handcuffs, handguns and stilettos. I handed the guns in, gave the booze to workmates and kept everything else (and as a coin forum I won't say what fun the handcuffs are:yahoo:)
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='30768' dateline='1381646419'I'm not sure why you think dishonest cops are the exception, it is a coin forum so I won't go in to things that a few ex cop friends have told me.
I didn't use the term dishonest because it means different things to different people. For example if you take the company car down to buy your lunch is it dishonest, put in an exaggerated overtime claim, if you take a false sickie or take a biro from the stationery cabinet?.
My phrase was "misappropriate property" ie outright theft in the context of knocking off something of value that you don't have an entitlement to. It happens but very infrequently and, I suggest, less commonly than in the general population.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='30779' dateline='1381650711'less commonly than in the general population.
The community's standards differ though when it comes to officialdom vs the bloke next door. We expect a much much higher standard from those who guard us
(in both senses of the word), and perhaps foolishly have zero tolerance in matters of honesty.
Therefore one crim in uniform tends to tarnish the whole lot.
Suffice to say if *I* were handing anything in, I'd document it exhaustively. Names, numbers, witnesses, camera crews, the whole ball o' wax. ;)
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='30779' dateline='1381650711'Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='30768' dateline='1381646419'I'm not sure why you think dishonest cops are the exception, it is a coin forum so I won't go in to things that a few ex cop friends have told me.
I didn't use the term dishonest because it means different things to different people. For example if you take the company car down to buy your lunch is it dishonest, put in an exaggerated overtime claim, if you take a false sickie or take a biro from the stationery cabinet?.
My phrase was "misappropriate property" ie outright theft in the context of knocking off something of value that you don't have an entitlement to. It happens but very infrequently and, I suggest, less commonly than in the general population.
My father is a retired private detective, worked lots of fraud cases and worked with many cops. He used to go out with them and whenever a body was found (car crashes and crime victims) the cops regularly pocketed any cash found on the victim.
Corruption is so endemic in the police that honest people usually don't last. At the old Redfern Police Academy they even had a policy of weeding out honest recruits (set up an impropriety, then see who reports it, they were canned as they could not be trusted to not dob in their colleagues). That was back in the day of Mr 10% (premier Askin), things are not much better (I had lunch last week with an ex cop who turned States Evidence against other cops a few years ago, in his opinion most cops are lower than kiddy fiddlers). My friend (when he was a cop) was a dealer and a pimp to boost his income.
Same can be said for many professions. Eg Politicians taking kickbacks, lawyers touching their trust accounts, Doctors receiving benefits to prescribe specific drugs. Where there's a will, there's a way.
I would hope the anti-corruption watchdogs would be more of a deterrent but at the moment I think they are just highlighting the problems.
Queensland was certainly up there with the worst of them in the early 90's when the Police Commissioner was jailed for corruption. We should also draw a distinction between organized rackets and the individual acting of their own volition.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='30786' dateline='1381653576'Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='30779' dateline='1381650711'less commonly than in the general population.
The community's standards differ though when it comes to officialdom vs the bloke next door. We expect a much much higher standard from those who guard us (in both senses of the word), and perhaps foolishly have zero tolerance in matters of honesty.
Therefore one crim in uniform tends to tarnish the whole lot.
Suffice to say if *I* were handing anything in, I'd document it exhaustively. Names, numbers, witnesses, camera crews, the whole ball o' wax. ;)
I would as well and that has brought a few undone over the years. Bit harder when they swap the diamond in the found ring for a bit of paste from costume jewellery.
That "uniform" is a very important and danger aspect of policing. People don't see the individual, they see the uniform. If they have had a bad experience then all cops are bad. Alternatively if the uniform gives a direction then they are listening to the uniform not the individual.
Despite the number of substantiated criticisms over the years the policing profession still rates highly in the community. I think generally the public is prepared to accept minor misconduct to offset the perceived danger and hardship from the job. People
want to respect their police. They don't have a lot of other people to go to when they need help.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='30792' dateline='1381655950'People want to respect their police.
Absolutely. But its hard when so many things conspire against it. Individual corruption, laziness or insensitivity. Systemic failures. Political interference. Even inadequate remuneration. All play a part.
And respect is so fragile. For example I once made the point to a policeman friend of mine that after being caught in an obvious setup at a stop sign, I lost a lot of respect for both the police and the road laws.
Its a very fine line between a well protected, safe community and a totalitarian police state. And in many parts of the world, that line's well and truly already been crossed.
Anyway, we seem to have hijacked yet another thread. :dodgy:
interesting read
i'm ok with the on topic nature of the potential off topic content
but my opinion is that it's more on topic as the thread posed the question in general around honest behaviour
the stories explore the reality of what some folks have done, the stories that they have been told and the age old question of whether you can really trust your local policeman or priest
i'd reckon AJ would have nil complaints
I wanna work at a recyclers place now!
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='30795' dateline='1381657806'I wanna work at a recyclers place now!
You probably don't... its not all red carpets and champagne, y'know.. ;)
yeah
i'd hate to do my nice nails in - it's been a long hard road to get them this long
maybe i'd have to wear 5 pairs of leather gloves
a gas mask
and a very thick scarf for my hair
can you wear 5 inch pumps at a recyclers?
might be an OH&S issue?
ha ha
how bout cut the nails get a peg for ya nose and shave ya head and you'll fit right in and have no worries about oh&s :)
yeah that's right Fulvio, the carpet need a clean and the champagne is hot and not to mention the flies ;)
I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now
There are a few areas around the Northern Territory that the "Land Based" fishermen/Women try their luck for Barra and always tend to get their lures stuck in the bushes or roots in the creeks.
I used to borrow my Mates dog and go in and retrieve these lures to replace some of the ones I had lost at low tide.
Defiantly a "Finders Keepers" scenario :ok:
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30821' dateline='1381698014'I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now
This reminds me of a TED talk that Mike Rowe gave a few years ago. Search for it, its one of the most awesome half hours you're ever likely to spend.
Anyway, while working on Deadliest Catch, he was on deck lashing down pots and nearly got washed overboard by the huge seas. So he went to see the captain. The conversation went something like this....
"Captain, OSHA?"
(OSHA is the US OH&S authority)"OSHA? Ocean" pointing to the waves "Son, I'm the captain of a crab boat. My responsibility is not to get you home alive. My responsibility is to get you home rich. You want to get home alive? That's on you."
"So for the rest of that day? Safety First!"
Point is we're too quick to hand off responsibility to others. As if wrapping yourself in the nanny state's security blanket somehow makes your life better. Well, it doesn't. It just adds complexity and stops you taking responsibility for your own actions, and in the end costs us all dearly on many levels.
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30821' dateline='1381698014'I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now
clever possum
yes where I work it is now wok safety
but we still all call it OH&S
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='30888' dateline='1381737430'Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30821' dateline='1381698014'I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now
This reminds me of a TED talk that Mike Rowe gave a few years ago. Search for it, its one of the most awesome half hours you're ever likely to spend.
Anyway, while working on Deadliest Catch, he was on deck lashing down pots and nearly got washed overboard by the huge seas. So he went to see the captain. The conversation went something like this....
"Captain, OSHA?" (OSHA is the US OH&S authority)
"OSHA? Ocean" pointing to the waves "Son, I'm the captain of a crab boat. My responsibility is not to get you home alive. My responsibility is to get you home rich. You want to get home alive? That's on you."
"So for the rest of that day? Safety First!"
Point is we're too quick to hand off responsibility to others. As if wrapping yourself in the nanny state's security blanket somehow makes your life better. Well, it doesn't. It just adds complexity and stops you taking responsibility for your own actions, and in the end costs us all dearly on many levels.
well
tell that to all the dead workers who have died doing what some irresponsible boss has
made them do
and all that the poor blighters are often wanting is a day's pay to feed a family
I have seen too many in the hospital who (have survived) & were usually young and simply doing what they were told and even then the mongrel boss would come in and threaten the poor little beggars to keep mum about the incident
we also have a couple of friends who have died on their jobs - just simply doing what some irresponsible boss made them do
OH&S is really important and NOT a nanny state but a social responsibility to send people home form work
to their families and
not to the local morgue waiting to be ID'ed by the wife or parent
in the day it was just called common sense :) No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid :winkextra:
doesn't matter how many names they give it it's still a joke and more is common sense and just looking..how the hell did we ever survive with out all the BS and going off the last 10 years where will they be in another 10..sort of glad I can't work any more with the way things are go..gone are the days
my dad used to be a funeral director, he tells us stories about the nasty things he saw. he has always said that forensic science has its pros and cons (I really want to become a forensic scientist). I recently finished a forensic course at school a few months back enabling us to practise all the techniques used.
P.S favourite show: NCSI
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30898' dateline='1381738320'in the day it was just called common sense :) No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid
:yeah_what_she_said:
RG, its not about stopping exploitation. That's always a good thing, and the bastards who put people at risk should be flayed alive, IMO.
Rather its about the state forcing ME to do/not do things because it MIGHT endanger MY safety. Its MY life, and as long as what I do doesn't impact on others, I and ONLY I, should be the one to make the judgement call on how I live it.
However there are many ways in which the state and its agencies and proxies attempt to control what we do with our lives. Much of it may well be based on good intentions, like stopping people smoking for example. But at the end of the day, if I want to take a risk its my business, and everybody should just butt out. Freedom is fragile enough without being eroded away by misplaced good intentions.
:agreed:
yeah
i'm talking about work OH&S
where the plumber sends the 16 year old down the tunnel/trench and then within minutes you have a 16 year old trapped under a ton of soil getting brain hypoxia and then the tradie threatens the kid if he tells them that
he told him to go into the tunnel
and there are so many more
most of the deaths locally here are very often the 15-19 year olds
no experience, trying to earn some dollars and being killed on the job by scum of the earth tradie bosses
yeah, common sense can prevail but some young fella is often just doing as he's told and trusting the uninsured adult who is doing the telling
where I grew the miners were often getting blown to bits through unsafe work practices, so we knew quite a few family men who were family friends
and they were blown to bits with shrapnel injuries and the like
ending up being young men and near cripples
my own father was involved in a serous mining accident in the 50's in the same mine - 7 years in the army, did the whole WWII service and gets stuck underground in a work accident - not a bloke without common sense I assure you
so it happens
nothing to do with stuff like smoking or getting pissed at the local after work and then driving home ............
anyways, the off topic police will be cruising soon so i'll quit before the nannies come after me here! ha ha
Quote from: 'Cooper S' pid='30899' dateline='1381738575'my dad used to be a funeral director, he tells us stories about the nasty things he saw. he has always said that forensic science has its pros and cons (I really want to become a forensic scientist). I recently finished a forensic course at school a few months back enabling us to practise all the techniques used.
P.S favourite show: NCSI
you can do degrees in forensics now Cooper
I have a friend who did it
and she liked it
NCSI is a bit over the top
a lot of that testing equipment stuff doesn't really exist
but it gives the role a lot of glamour and makes you think about how the clues are connected (I used to really like that TV how House for the same reason - I'd try to diagnose the patient if I could before the show ended! maybe i'd get 1 out of 20 ha ha)
yeah I was one once RG, I was bought up that you do as your told and that was at work as welland the ADF dill it into you as well..we had work ethics back then too, shame the employers didn't and still don't other wise we wouldn't have so much trouble :(
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='30945' dateline='1381741839'NCSI is a bit over the top
"NCIS? Is that like CSI?"
"Only if you're dyslexic"Name that quote... ;)
this is my post and I really don't care if they go off track just as long as I get my questions answered ;)
people here are talking about the Sydney Harbour Bridge coin
16 men died building that bridge
my (step - from Mums' second marriage) sisters' grandfather died building that bridge
the 'good old days' weren't exactly the peaches and cream that we might chose to think they were
I have a form of industrial deafness from factory work when I was younger - why? cause I was stupid? - no, I had to work or starve - who wants a 'dole bludger' in the family?
in my books - It might be seen as a nannie state but OH&S keeps more people safer in the work place and longer in the work place
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='30960' dateline='1381743209'in my books - It might be seen as a nannie state but OH&S keeps more people safer in the work place and longer in the work place
Uhhuh.. except that in the real world, employers only care about money. So they get around the laws by moving production offshore. To third world countries where people work 19 hours for $2 a day, get locked in and die when buildings burn down and they can't get out. All in the name of retail therapy and profits.
Meanwhile, back home, people who can't shift offshore, like self-employed small businessmen, end up shouldering massive expenses which ultimately drive them out of business, benefitting those who went offshore.
Nobody would argue against exploitation being a bad thing. But so are blanket rules that do more harm than good.
I don't know RG, not long ago..only a couple of years, they extended our shopping centre and a mate of mine died and workcover did their thing AFTER being warned by employees that something was going to happen and the death so next thing a few people were moved on so all was good and nothing ever happened to the employer so really what's the point in some of these laws and places that are menat to protect us when they take kick backs so everythinggets swept under the rug..yeah I hear ya about the old days but if they built the bridge to day it would never get done but if the old blokes had just the saftey equipment they have today would have made a big difference..it's a tough one this one as ya damned if ya do and damned if ya don't, I honestly don't know what the solution is but as most this in Oz we seem to go from one extreme to the other and never seem to find the middle ground.
Eg me, I could see that something needed to be done about people being able to rip off employers and do the wrong thing but where they stuffed up was that they put people like me "injured worker" in the same boat so I got FUBR because of bastard employees that couldn't be sacked for doing the wrong thing and the worst thing is that ther was no compo no come back no nothing..meant to get part pay till retirement but insurance just cuts you off so forced on to DSP and never to work and too hard to get super ALL BS. There is so much no one knows about unless it happens to someone you know like me and even no some people think things are great :( Oh and I'd have to lie if I did get a job and then with this stupid net I got screwed again because you put my name in and I'm a test case so you can't lie as they can sack you straight away for it so what is one to do as I was 33 when it all fell apart and I lost pretty much everything and now trying to find my way and try and make some sort of life but it is just so hard in these days..but I'll get by :)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='30910' dateline='1381739856'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30898' dateline='1381738320'in the day it was just called common sense :) No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid
:yeah_what_she_said:
RG, its not about stopping exploitation. That's always a good thing, and the bastards who put people at risk should be flayed alive, IMO.
Rather its about the state forcing ME to do/not do things because it MIGHT endanger MY safety. Its MY life, and as long as what I do doesn't impact on others, I and ONLY I, should be the one to make the judgement call on how I live it.
However there are many ways in which the state and its agencies and proxies attempt to control what we do with our lives. Much of it may well be based on good intentions, like stopping people smoking for example. But at the end of the day, if I want to take a risk its my business, and everybody should just butt out. Freedom is fragile enough without being eroded away by misplaced good intentions.
Here Here Mate, I am SOOOO sick of the "Big Brothering" going on today.
Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='30978' dateline='1381745199'Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:
Reading these last two comments brought to mind a video shot by a crew climbing a 1,600' radio mast to replace the warning light on the top.
No safety harnesses. Why? Because that would slow them down too much, so they only tie off for rest stops. Sure, they might slip and die, and it does happen, albeit rarely. But they choose to freeclimb, because its the only way to get the job done.
Same deal goes for iron workers on skyscrapers. A lot of the work just can't be done efficiently, or even at all, if they follow the book. So they choose not to.
That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it.
yeah seen that Fulvio and it's pretty amazing alright and something I would have done..and would love to jump off :) just have to watch the cables ;)
and to those that have my full name just google and you'll see what I'm talking about, you'll find me in/on the 'workers compensation commission' nsw gov site, so how can you lie to even get a job..everyone should be so careful as apparently I'm there for ever :(
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='30984' dateline='1381747323'apparently I'm there for ever
Look on the bright side... surely its a cheaper/better memorial than some chiselled granite in an overgrown plot somewhere, no? Heck, you can't even guarantee your final resting place is forever nowadays. They only rent you the spot for 25 years.
the ocean will always be there for me mate ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A19q7rysLs
yeah AJ
I thought that you had been and are still going through a rough trot with a work accident
years ago when I did night factory work our only OH&S was through the union and once I had been sacked for walking off the job due to ammonia gas exposure (night shift)
got put back onto day shift after the (white) boss had a chat to me about the incident
night shift had highest productivity - why - no downing tools
so the islander and Asian women and the old one or two white women like myself were threatened if we asked for stand down due to heavy ammonia gas leaks (regular as well)
working hard and breathing in ammonia gas
the last time & only time I walked - the night shift supervisor said to me - robyn if you walk through those doors to wait for the gas leak to stop then i'm sacking you
I said to her well, ** sack me mate cause i'm over this BS
all the coloured women went white with fear of losing their jobs too
day shift - ammonia leaks - everyone outside until it's fixed
with the union guys and the DPI around at days - the conditions were
completely different & yeah - productivity was lower due to worker safety obligations
anyways, the good thing was that the boss made well for better night time conditions and the nasty little supervisor was demoted for standover tactics
there is a real difference between
choosing to do dangerous stuff at work to being bullied and threatened into engaging in dangerous practices
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='30981' dateline='1381745873'Quote from: 'trout' pid='30978' dateline='1381745199'Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:
Reading these last two comments brought to mind a video shot by a crew climbing a 1,600' radio mast to replace the warning light on the top.
No safety harnesses. Why? Because that would slow them down too much, so they only tie off for rest stops. Sure, they might slip and die, and it does happen, albeit rarely. But they choose to freeclimb, because its the only way to get the job done.
Same deal goes for iron workers on skyscrapers. A lot of the work just can't be done efficiently, or even at all, if they follow the book. So they choose not to.
That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it.
i don't entirely agree with that -
"That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it"
adrenalin junkies love to get paid while they do dangerous stuff
and they do come to grief as well - I read about them all the time as my son loves to follow them and I get the latest update of who ploughed into what wall - ha ha
there is a real difference between choosing to do dangerous stuff at work to being bullied and threatened into engaging in dangerous practices
Yes couldn't agree more RG :good: I've worked in many places like that and it's not good and my work thing is all over that's why I'm on DSP, the insurance company just cut you off after a few years so what else is there to do as there is no legal recourse so I'm stuck in limbo, just wish I had a longer working life before it all went to hell :( So it's not so much the rough trot RG but that I don't want to see others end up like me as it's only bringing us down and we'll end up like the US.
So when you think that from my early thirties until retirment age I was suppose to get half pay from the insurance so there was over $769600 plus any increases plus they paid medical, travel and a few other expenses so that saved them heaps cut cutting us off and put the burdon straight onto the tax payer but it's ok as they appear as thought they couldn't give a toss and I wonder how many others there are out there like me and I was one of the lucky one's that did get part compo as I know of people that hurt their backs in private industry and shown the door and that was it..food for thought :winkextra: I will never vote liberal again as they CAN'T be trusted, not that the other lot are much better so it's all a joke so I just try and laugh about it or I'll break down and :cray: Sorry for my rant peoples but thank you for taking the time to read a part of my tale of woe :hi:
Just for the record, I used to be a computer operator with DSS (now Centrelink). One fine day I was the only one on duty at lunchtime. We were printing pension cheques, and all three printers stopped at once. So panic mode to get things rolling again. Throw box of cheques in the first one, hit the go button, ditto for the second... then the 3-part report paper in the third... which weighs about four times more... *CRUNCH*.. Aww faw down, go *BOOM*. And that's how they found me, lying on the floor.
Fast forward 9 years of hell, light duties, hospital stays, etc, and after 35 doctors they found one who took one look at me and without an examination said it was a preexisting condition. That was when the razor gang was doing its thing. So I got put back on full duties and immediately sacked. Sorry, I mean given shyte work and asked nicely to take voluntary redundancy. Same thing really.
Eventually after the whole Newstart dance (like who's going to hire me if I tell the truth? And if I lie I'll get caught), and lots of BS jumping through hoops somebody in the department with half a brain realised DSP was the only solution and made it happen.
So yeah, I think I get pretty much every angle of this. But laws are blunt instruments, ill-suited to microsurgery. There are always unintended consequences, and one of the consequences of OH&S, Insurance, and a myriad regulations at every level is to interfere with our personal freedom of choice in how we live our lives. And that's a bad thing.
Nor is it just clearly dangerous stuff like jumping motorcycles over canyons either. There are places we used to go which are now closed off, there are clubs and activities that have been forced to shut down, there are things you can't do in certain places, at certain times, or at all. All in the name of "safety".
Again, we make our own safety. I'm not talking about coercion. I'm not talking about negligence. I'm talking about informed choices being denied. Life is a terminal disease, and noone has ever escaped the death sentence it imposes. At least we should have the freedom to live it as we choose.
Someone once said that if the automobile were invented today, there is no way it would be allowed to be built. Think about that. That's the kind of unintended consequence the nanny state produces.
:yeah_that:
A visual representation of Unicorn's current state .........
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/balance.jpg)
Yep ........ one day I'll get there.
Just to go a bit more off-topic, this bloke is one who was most grateful for defective workmanship and materials.
From The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser Sunday 2 October 1803:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/625802?searchTerm=luker&searchLimits=l-title=3
The bloke "Luker" they mention is the first Constable recorded as dying on duty in Australia. Didn't waste time in those days. Sentenced to death on the Friday and taken out for hanging on the Monday.
SYDNEY.
At half past nine on Monday morning, the New South WALES Corps got under Arms, and proceeded to the place of execution, to which Joseph Samuels and James Hardwicke were brought, in pursuance of the sentence passed upon them on the preceding Friday.
Both prisoners conducted themselves with becoming decency ; and when the Reverend Mr. MARSDEN had performed the duties of his function, and quitted Hardwicke, he turned to Samuels (who being a Jew, was prepared by a person of his own profession) and questioning him on the subject of the murder of Luker, he solemnly declared, that during the interval of his confinement in the cell with Isacc Simmonds, nicknamed Hikey Bull, they in the Hebrew tongue exchanged an oath, by which they bound themselves to secrecy and silence in whatever they might then disclose.
Conjured by that GOD before whom he was shortly to appear, not to advance anything in his latter moments that would en- danger his salvation, he now repeated with an air of firmness what he had before declared ; and appearing deeply imprest with a becoming sense of his approaching end, appealed to Heaven to bear him testimony that Simmonds had, under the influence of the oath by which they were reciprocally bound, acknowledged to him that Luker had accidentally surprised him with the desk belonging to Mary Breeze and that he, in consequence thereof, had " knocked him down, and given him a topper for luck!" adding at the same time, that if he had not been kept in the dark with respect to the concealment of the money, that had been taken out of it, that catastrophe would never have happened ; but as it was, that he would hang 500 Christians to save himself.
Simmonds, who was purposely brought from Georges Head to witness the awful end of the unhappy culprit, heard what he advinced, and repeatedly endeavoured to check the declaration, which was delivered with mildness and composure, and which, as it appeared wholly untinctured with acrimony, gained credit among the spectators in whose breasts a sentiment of abhorrence was universally awakened.
Odium and suspicion were attached to Simmonds from the very day on which the dreaded crime was perpetrated, and every eye was fixed in doubt upon his countenance when he assiduously assisted to lower the mangled corpse into the grave : Although from the want of that full and sufficient evidence which the Law requires he had escaped Condemnation, yet he had been arraigned at the arbitrary tribunal of Public Opinion, and most of the spectators had pronounced judgement against him in their hearts. It is not to be wondered then that testimony like the present, proceeding from the lips of a dying man, whose only probable concern it was to ease his burthened conscience in the hour of death, should at once remove all doubt, if such remained, and the feelings of the multitude burst forth into invective.
At about ten the Criminals reascended the cart; and when about to be launched into eternity, a Reprieve for James Hardwicke was received and announced by the Provost Marshal.
Samuells devoted the last awful minute allowed him to the most earnest and fervent prayer ; at length the signal was given, and the cart drove from under him ; but by the concussion the suspending cord was separated about the centre, and the culprit fell to the ground, on which he remained motionless with his face downwards. The cart returned, and the criminal was supported on each side until another rope was applied in lieu of the former : he was again launched off, but the line unrove, and, continued to flip until the legs of the sufferer trailed along the ground, the body being only half suspended.
All that beheld were also moved at his protracted sufferings ; nor did some hesitate to declare that the invisible hand of Providence was at work in the behalf of him who had revealed the circumstances above related. To every appearance lifeless, the body was now raised, and supported on men's shoulders, while the executioner prepared anew the work of death. The body was gently lowered, but when left alone, again fell prostrate to the earth, this rope having also snapped short, close to the neck.
Compassion could no longer bear restraint ; winged with humanity, the Provost Marshal sped to His EXCELLENCY'S presence, in which the success of his mission overcame him ; A Reprieve was announced---and if Mercy be a fault, it is the dearest attribute of GOD, and surely in Heaven it may find extenuation !
Samuells, when the Provost Marshal arrived with the tidings which diffused gladness throughout every heart, was incapable of participating in the general satisfaction. By what he had endured his reasonable faculties were totally impaired ; and when his nerves recovered somewhat from their feebleness, he uttered many incoherences, and was alone ignorant of what had past. Surgical assistance has since restored him ; And MAY THE GRATEFUL REMEMBRANCE OF THESE EVENTS DIRECT HIS FUTURE COURSES!
One of the ropes which sever'd at the place of execution on Monday underwent an experiment the same day, from which it would appear that it had critically been defective in that particular part alone in which it failed. One of the ends being fastened to a beam seven weights were supported by it, each weighing 56lbs ; one of the strands was cut across and afterwards a second; but the single strand that remained was found sufficient to support the whole weight depending on it.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='31097' dateline='1381820434'From The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser Sunday 2 October 1803:
My how times have changed... imagine the difference if it happened today.
hey guys
some :( stories
shows the resilience that some people have
I tips me hat to you fellas xxx robbie
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='31101' dateline='1381823571'Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='31097' dateline='1381820434'From The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser Sunday 2 October 1803:
My how times have changed... imagine the difference if it happened today.
Very hard times. Executions, snake bites without antivenom, drownings because they couldn't swim, indigenous attacks, drunken murders, farming accidents, suicides, unknown diseases, droughts and floods. It's a wonder we thrived as much as we did. They must have had a tremendous strength of survival.
The most lashes I've seen imposed was 1000 (I think he only got 1/3 of those because he committed another crime and was sentenced to hang). That was for a burglary whereas someone else that raped an 8yo girl only received 800.
Ads seeking apprentices aged between 10yrs and 14 yrs to serve an apprenticeship until they reach 17.
I have an interest in early Australian history so it's good to read the contemporary records of Napolean preparing for war, the discovery of koalas, kangaroos and the variety of snakes, stories of pirates , the Bounty, natives in the islands (Tonga) ambushing ships, the order to stop herding stock through the Rocks in Sydney so they set up cattle yards a couple of blocks away (Too many pedestrians in inner Sydney were getting knocked down by the cattle), the best way to revive a drowning victim was to wrap them in blankets, the best way to treat a snakebite was to cut out a circle of skin around the bite with scissors or the like, Bennelong was alive and a famous native combatant, etc
Life was hard for everyone. No OH&S in those days.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='31102' dateline='1381824434'hey guys
some :( stories
shows the resilience that some people have
I tips me hat to you fellas xxx robbie
Thank you RG your a sweetheart :give_rose: It's all good mate I just get down from time to time and mainly at myself for not being able to do much, and need to vent sorry and then think there's FA I can do and I'm still breathing so try and look up :yahoo: just sometimes it's a little hard but with nice people around it makes it easier :friends:
Thanks Steve, cool reading :)