I often read Walter mention 'hairlines'. Is this an example of hairlines? I can barely see these with a 5x loupe but they really stand out here.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1942S_Shilling_DEN_Hairlines.png)
These are normally associated with cleaning, sometimes it is because the die has been harshly polished but that is rare :ok:
maybe best if Walter explained his use of the word
I thought
1. raised hairlines - are from die polish marks - incused on the die - raised on the coin's surface
2. deep/er recessed hairlines - abrasive cleaner i.e. commonly known as scratches
ps I thought that die hair lines - don't go across the higher points such as the lettering, date, effigy etc
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='27563' dateline='1378722459'maybe best if Walter explained his use of the word
I thought
1. raised hairlines - are from die polish marks - incused on the die - raised on the coin's surface
2. deep/er recessed hairlines - abrasive cleaner i.e. commonly known as scratches
ps I thought that die hair lines - don't go across the higher points such as the lettering, date, effigy etc
:agreed:
Those hairlines on your coin are die cleaning striations. Some argue they detract from the coin's eye appeal but otherwise they're nothing to worry about. I won't refer to those as hairlines as the term hairlines has a negative connotation.
Hairlines are on almost every coin MS63 or below. They require an extremely bright, focused light to be seen (the same technique we use to detect cleaning) and usually result from contact with other coins. Cleaning also causes hairlines though I call those cleaning hairlines. If they're visible to the naked eye I'll call them hairline scratches.
I find the easiest way to see the difference between die and coin scratches is to hold the light at a very shallow angle to bring the lines into relief. You can easily see if they're raised as a result of being on the die, or gouged into the coin itself from cleaning.
Also, die scratches tend to be quite a bit heavier on the whole. Not sure why... perhaps the really fine ones fill in after a few strikes? Think common examples like speared roos, the 2004 student design, suffragettes, etc.. all have cleaning scratches, and all are quite heavy. Easily visible to the naked eye. OTOH, if a coin's been cleaned the scratches are really quite fine... well, unless it was done by a gorilla using steel wool. ;)
They tell me Peter Wallace uses these guys .....
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/gor.jpg)
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='27576' dateline='1378734476'They tell me Peter Wallace uses these guys .....
ROFLMAO!!!
Brilliant, mate. :yahoo:
gee we get pedantic over our coins..few scratches don't worry me just as long as I have the coin :winkextra:
What can I say uni :angel:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='27590' dateline='1378739378'gee we get pedantic over our coins..
Bloody oath AJ, I've noticed that:exclamation: I suspect this is the kind of forensic examination done by TPGs, except old mate APCGS of course. :haha:
Thanks for all the replies.
robbiegal said:
Quoteps I thought that die hair lines - don't go across the higher points such as the lettering, date, effigy etc
I think you might actually be able to see that with the striation (scratch) that runs through the bottom left leg of the 'A'.
wwwww said:
QuoteSome argue they detract from the coin's eye appeal
As I said I can barely see these with a 5x loupe, they are not visible at all to my little eye so I would argue they couldn't possibly detract from eye appeal.
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='27590' dateline='1378739378'gee we get pedantic over our coins..few scratches don't worry me just as long as I have the coin
I absolutely agree, and its one of the reasons I mostly stick to errors, where condition runs a distant second to the error itself. I'll happily leave the nitpicking over whether its an MS63.678 or an MS63.677 because it has 32 bag marks instead of 30 to the plastic coffin collectors I reckon.
But that said, its important to know about this stuff anyway, because in the event you want to actually sell something, chances are it
will get nitpicked by potential buyers, and that innocent wipe could cost you a sale later on.
And we
*all* have the temptations to clean our coins, don't we? Even when we know we shouldn't. I know
*I* do... just last night I was looking at that 1ยข I bought from PPH that I finally picked up from the post office, and thinking
"sad about the green bits, I wonder if I could get them off?" And yes, I could. But then the coin would have cleaning scratches, and its far too valuable to suffer that fate. So I'll try really hard to resist... maybe just dunk it in acetone to try and arrest it... :angel:
Just waiting for the "EEK" from PP :angel:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='27622' dateline='1378769552'I absolutely agree, and its one of the reasons I mostly stick to errors, where condition runs a distant second to the error itself. I'll happily leave the nitpicking over whether its an MS63.678 or an MS63.677 because it has 32 bag marks instead of 30 to the plastic coffin collectors I reckon.
Good point, noted.
QuoteBut that said, its important to know about this stuff anyway, because in the event you want to actually sell something, chances are it will get nitpicked by potential buyers, and that innocent wipe could cost you a sale later on.
And again, good point. Although I'm nerdy enough to be interested in any case.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='27622' dateline='1378769552'I absolutely agree, and its one of the reasons I mostly stick to errors, where condition runs a distant second to the error itself. I'll happily leave the nitpicking over whether its an MS63.678 or an MS63.677 because it has 32 bag marks instead of 30 to the plastic coffin collectors I reckon.
It's not just the quantity of marks, but the severity of each matter too. ;)
I'll leave the big money coins to you lot to fight over and stick to my crappy coins cause I'll never have the money to play that game :( but it's good to learn about these things and I agree with fulvio :good: Gee I'm glad other things I collect aren't so fussy as it really is a joke that one little mark can make so much difference..like thousands of dollars, silly when you really think about it..sorry mate but your car has a hair scratch so we'll give ya $20 and not $20k :)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='27664' dateline='1378777596'orry mate but your car has a hair scratch so we'll give ya $20 and not $20k
Yeah... my nice shiny new Getz got caught in that massive hailstorm a couple years ago and hasn't been the same since. I tried RP7, Acetone, and soaking it in Olive Oil, but nothing would get rid of the dents. Then PCGS sent it back in a body bag. :(
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='27666' dateline='1378777972'Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='27664' dateline='1378777596'orry mate but your car has a hair scratch so we'll give ya $20 and not $20k
Yeah... my nice shiny new Getz got caught in that massive hailstorm a couple years ago and hasn't been the same since. I tried RP7, Acetone, and soaking it in Olive Oil, but nothing would get rid of the dents. Then PCGS sent it back in a body bag. :(
That's what you get for trying to clean it - my car is still in its pristine, natural, uncleaned state. :P
Hairlines are what I used to have on my head.
you lot are so funny, this is just the best site ever with the nicest people :yahoo: top stuff when you can joke around and have a good belly laugh :laugh2:
thank you :hi:
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='27667' dateline='1378778390'That's what you get for trying to clean it - my car is still in its pristine, natural, uncleaned state. :P
Yes, I have largely the same approach. My car gets washed once a year whether it needs it or not.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='27671' dateline='1378779473'Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='27667' dateline='1378778390'That's what you get for trying to clean it - my car is still in its pristine, natural, uncleaned state. :P
Yes, I have largely the same approach. My car gets washed once a year whether it needs it or not.
I use the "Automatic" cleaner :ok:
The ute gets cleaned when it rains :yahoo:
Yep I'm with trout, bought my ute brand new in 02 and washed it 3 times and once was 12 months ago when I moved here and it still looks better than a lot because I don't buy them with anything else except standard white paint as all the others are crap and either crack and fade or go chalky and the darker the paint the more marks they show and are harder to see when driving in shadows. Oh and my ute is always in the weather so I don't see much point..but I might have to clean it if I get any visitors :)
Um, not sure if its too late to get back on topic :angel: but are these marks hairlines? I honestly don't know. :dontknow:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11093/1928_Florin_xx28EF2928Cleaned29_Hairline.png)
There are hairlines there, the exposed surfaces are worn so there are either a lot more hairlines there (which aren't showing in your scan) or its a circulated coin. If it's uncirculated then it's probably been cleaned, otherwise they could be caused by caused by circulation.
never too late Bob, sorry about that mate :) and not sure but some look a little umm big/thick but interested to see what the guns say :)
sorry Walter ya type to quick for me
Its all good AJ :grin:
Thanks Walter, that coin is definitely circulated probably about EF at best and I have it marked as cleaned. That's the main reason I thought it might be hairlines.
I'm hoping to improve my camera setup so I can get some better pics. :sun_bespectacled:
Quote from: 'markn' pid='27671' dateline='1378779473'Yes, I have largely the same approach. My car gets washed once a year whether it needs it or not.
I have to admit that since this was my one and only NEW car, I babied it at first... soft microfibre cloth every day, weekly soapy bath, the works.
Then the hailstones took the shine off, and now it gets washed every time it rains.
Come to think of it, there may be some similarities to my coins in all this.. ;)
Ah crud.. go answer the phone while posting, and when you come back, someone's gone and put things back on topic. Sigh...
Yeah, what he said. Looks nice nonetheless.