You may recall that I've been working on storage solutions for a while now. I've mentioned it a few times, and things have evolved slowly.
Well, here's pretty much the whole process, as it currently stands. First of all, apologies for the bad pics. They were shot in the laundry, under flourescent lighting, and I forgot to colour-correct. And some of the focus may be off too. This is process documentation, not a camera club photo contest.
Here's pretty much everything involved.
(http://goo.gl/FNf9mW)
Clockwise, from top left...
- A snack-food box that will house 18 rolls of $2 coins when creatively snipped.
- LDPE Coin Bags, free from the bank.
- A Handheld heat sealer, available from lots of places cheaply.
- An impulse heat sealer. This one is the household one bought decades ago, most current models are the metal ones hinged at one end.
- Armaguard coin bag and offcuts.
- Rolled-up spacers made from said offcuts.
- Two bags of coins with spacers.
- Acetone. 4L Bunnings can, 100ml Chemist bottle (12 times dearer), and a HDPE milk bottle used for refilling same.
- Lots of finished rolls.
- Scissors
- Scales, with an unlabelled roll.
- 500g Mushroom tub, with more rolls and empty bags.
OK, so, step one is to get the ink off a bank bag, using a swab soaked in Acetone. It doesn't need a lot, and you may as well do a stack in one hit. Or, load up the bags and then take the ink off. It doesn't really matter. Just be careful what's underneath, as the ink WILL stain, and the acetone may dissolve it. A work board may be a good idea, and a sheet of white paper so you can see the ink. Its easy to end up with pink bags instead of clear.
Then fill your bag. Tightly. You want as little air as possible left in there, and you don't want the coins free to rub against each other. With $2 coins, you can get from 33 to 35 coins in, because bags vary slightly.
Then weigh each roll
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00122.JPG)
This weight will get entered into the database (or whatever alternative solution you may use)
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/FMPdataEntry.png)
to generate the label...
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/FMPlabel.png)
Note the different parts of the data entry form...
When you create a new record, the serial number and barcode are generated. You enter the year, choose denomination and type, enter a comment if appropriate, a URL and pics of the QR code and optionally a closeup of the coin (for errors), and the box left of the Comment field contains the pattern which will go around the edges of the label. I now use grey for UNC, stripes (B/W or B/G) for errors, and nothing for circulated.
The label currently gets the border, year, denomination, type and coment, the QR, URL and pic, weight, count and face value, and a barcode. It will probably change some more before I'm completely happy though.
At any rate, here's a finished roll being weighed. Note the slight discrepancy.. this is a +/- 1g kitchen scale.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00123.JPG)
Here's that snack-food box, packed and folded closed, ready for storage. Just use whatever you have lying around, and be creative. Milk crates are probably the easiest thing to pack these boxes into. Just be sure to compile an inventory of what goes where, so you don't have to spend a month looking for something.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00124.JPG)
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00125.JPG)
An alternative to cardboard boxes is to reuse the LDPE Armaguard sacks your coins came in. These sacks are really tough, and you can pack five rolls into a brick, and stack them in another sack. And if you slit them open carefully, you can even keep the handy carrying handle.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00126.JPG)
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00127.JPG)
Speaking of reusing plastic, here's what I do with the bags...
The bag on the left gets slit across the top, the edge that does NOT have a slit cut into it. You want to keep this, because the plastic is designed to tear easily in only one direction, and this is how people open the bags. Ordinarily I pack 25 rejects in the bag, seal and trim it, discard the waste strips, and pack four rolls into a bank bag, then ten of these bricks into a sack to take back and swap for the next lot.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00128.JPG)
But in this case, I may or may not end up keeping these UNC coins once we know what the mintage is. So I don't want to roll them in odd numbers, as above, and I don't want them loose to knock each other about either. So I make a spacer block out of the offcuts to pack a tight $50 roll. Just use two strips welded together, roll it up loosely and weld the end. You want it just slightly narrower than a coin. Too big and they will slip, too small and they'll flip around it. Practice makes perfect.
...cont
OK, so here's a batch ready to seal up. I usually try and print a full sheet at a time, but this is all I had ready to go. And I screwed up the errors, forgetting the pic, so will have to redo it anyway. Oh well..
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00129.JPG)
A couple of quick slices later...
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00130.JPG)
Now insert the labels and re-weigh to check for mixups.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00131.JPG)
Its worth mentioning at this stage that I double-face the normal coins, and not the errors. That means a normal roll will be H/H or T/T (commemoratives), vs H/T error rolls. You want to be able to see both ends in case of errors, and I find this a handy double-check.
Now into the heat sealer. Push the label around so its under the coins. Hang the roll over the sealer and get all the air out. Press down tightly and hit the button. Then ease off the pressure slightly so the weight of the roll tears along the weld.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00132.JPG)
And you end up with a neatly welded roll, and a handy sized ziplock bag you can use for other coins.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00133.JPG)
Now comes the tricky bit. Fold the flap over, and squeeze any remaining air out (the seal will probably let air out, or use a pin if you must). With the flap folded under, sit the roll on the sealer with the edge of the flap lined up over the element. Hold it down tight, CAREFULLY! Don't rest your hand on the bit that's about to get HOT :diablo:
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00134.JPG)
Push the button (might need two shots sometimes, its three layers of plastic), and you get a neat weld like this.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00135.JPG)
Sometimes the plastic buckles and you just can't get it to sit right. Enter the hand sealer, seen here with the cover off (yes, its 3V).
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00136.JPG)
Tack-weld the flap down, like you would staple a poster to your wall. Note that these things aren't pulsed, so don't overdo it, or you'll burn a hole in your roll.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00137.JPG)
And here's three finished rolls, and everything back in the carry tub.
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00138.JPG)
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/130815.RollSealing640/DSC00139.JPG)
Easy, huh? Its eco-friendly, like all recycling. Its free, always a good thing. Its completely safe, secure, long-term storage for your bulk coins. And its really quick and easy to do once you get the hang of it. Plus I reckon it looks really neat and professional. If you have a colour printer, you could also get carried away with label designs. Just be careful that your inks are archival-safe. All copy paper nowadays is, and AFAIK, all laser toners, but I haven't researched inkjet inks, so do your homework.
mate do I have a job for you so get your arse up here :mocking: and a very happy birthday old man, ya can't hide from me :)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='24949' dateline='1376507644'mate do I have a job for you so get your arse up here :mocking: and a very happy birthday old man, ya can't hide from me :)
Groan.. go to sleep, damn you! ;)
Nice work mate :good:
I wish someone had done that to all my old penny's and 1/2 penny's years ago :angel:
You should send this post to RAM and maybe next time they dish out 5 coins at a time they won't arrive all bashed and battered using this system :ok:
NO :laugh2: so what are you doin up anyway..you weren't suppose to be up until I've finished decorating for the party ;)
good idea trout but would they listen :dash1:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='24956' dateline='1376508649'You should send this post to RAM and maybe next time they dish out 5 coins at a time they won't arrive all bashed and battered using this system
Heh, as if they'd pay attention. They don't care, and may even prefer them to get wrecked in transit. More sales of their overpriced mint sets that way. :diablo:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='24957' dateline='1376508680'So what are you doin up anyway..you weren't suppose to be up until I've finished decorating for the party
Party? Awww, you shouldn't have...:blush:
AJ, my hours are all over the place, haven't you noticed? Some days I get up at 4 or 5am, some days 2pm, or anything in between. Depends what I've been up to, and whether I lie down to watch a movie on the MacBook and fall asleep. ;)
QuoteAJ, my hours are all over the place, haven't you noticed? Some days I get up at 4 or 5am, some days 2pm, or anything in between. Depends what I've been up to, and whether I lie down to watch a movie on the MacBook and fall asleep. Wink
Like many of us I think you may have "Old Farts Syndrome".
I quite often get up and wake the chooks as well.
I am nearly always on night shift when I go away on a job and Like you I wake up at weird hours and can't get back to sleep :dash1:
Very impressive,it's a damn process line
At first glance I thought they were old cigar tubes.
Quote from: 'jozk123' pid='24964' dateline='1376513056'At first glance I thought they were old cigar tubes.
Too small. Goldy uses polypropylene M&M containers though, which are good if you want to be able to add/remove coins. Only downside is they're free to rattle around unless you add packing.
:laugh2: mate do I know what you's are talking about with sleep or lack there of and yes I have noticed you've both been up with me at all hours :(
Excellent storage system Fulvio.
Mine looks similar except all the LDPE coin bags are empty :angel:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='25014' dateline='1376533001'Mine looks similar except all the LDPE coin bags are empty :angel:
LOL! Sounds a lot like my bank account. ;)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='25051' dateline='1376556602'Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='25014' dateline='1376533001'Mine looks similar except all the LDPE coin bags are empty :angel:
LOL! Sounds a lot like my bank account. ;)
HeHe, The ONLY money I can save is all in coins mate, and I doubt that I will ever spend/sell those :yahoo:
Anyway your bank account is all on those shelves full of coins Mate :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='25053' dateline='1376556895'Anyway your bank account is all on those shelves full of coins Mate
Nup. Coins don't count as savings. Savings is what you withdraw to
pay for coins. :)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='25059' dateline='1376557588'Quote from: 'trout' pid='25053' dateline='1376556895'Anyway your bank account is all on those shelves full of coins Mate
Nup. Coins don't count as savings. Savings is what you withdraw to pay for coins. :)
Wages is what I withdraw to pay for coins :angel:
I feel that this affliction with coins will keep me on the tools way after retirement :dash1:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='25061' dateline='1376558186'Wages is what I withdraw to pay for coins :angel:
Wages aren't for coins. Wages are for keeping you alive and healthy enough to be able to buy coins.
Corpses who failed to keep a roof over the missus and food in her belly don't tend to get in a lot of noodling. ;)
Savings are like leftovers.. what's left on the table after you're sated.
why go to all that trouble and then roll them in various sizes (i.e. - I see rolls with 34, then 35)
shouldn't you have it same as a bag
25 coin s per roll? aren't they $50bags?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25069' dateline='1376562613'why go to all that trouble and then roll them in various sizes (i.e. - I see rolls with 34, then 35)
shouldn't you have it same as a bag
25 coin s per roll? aren't they $50bags?
Because the aim is to pack them tight, and the bags vary slightly, that's why. 33, 34, 35 seems to be the range.
$50 bags are needed for commerce, yes. That's why the recycled Armaguard bags with the spacers to make $50 fit tightly.
And why tight? Because if they're loose, they will rub every time the bag moves, and then they will stop being UNC. Not to mention contaminated urban air is a bad thing in your storage.
yeah
but without the label
no one is goanna know how many coins are in the rolls
if you are consistent then every roll picked up is $50 face value or 25 by number
and they will pack better in even lengths
it's my orderly brain kicking in here :)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25086' dateline='1376568405'but without the label
But its on the label. Which is an integral part of this system.
I do do $50 bags, which are the rejects I throw back in the pond. Trust me, they're not neat, and there is no easy way to make them so, because you can't weld close in to the roll, and you can't reliably pre-cut the exact size.
I tried many, many different versions before settling on this in the end.
But hey, I'm not here to dictate to anyone how to do it. I just document what I did, in as much detail as possible, and explain the reasoning that led to a given point. If you do it different, fantastic. Just let us know if you find solutions that work better, if you would. I'd love to learn.
The end goal is to recycle waste products and provide stable, secure long-term bulk storage. Anything that does that is good I reckon.
yeah
all good
i'm a sewer - and if the row isn't straight and even
it gets unpicked - resewn and unpicked & resewn - until it's straight
so for my eyes - one coin higher out of a few rolls - would erk me
so if I was making the rolls
they'd all be the same height so that I could put them in neat little rows and marvel at what a brilliant organiser I am !! ha ha
well done - it looks great
albeit not as level as this gal would like ém!!!
ps
my son works in a book shop
and he wraps the books in what looks like cling wrap roll of clear sheets
wraps the book
then goes over it with a hairdryer
the cling wrap stuff shrinks really quickly
and presto
the book is wrapped really tight
wonder if it would work on rolls?
maybe he could get me some of the stuff and i'll do an experiment for you
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25090' dateline='1376572612'they'd all be the same height so that I could put them in neat little rows and marvel at what a brilliant organiser I am !!
Certainly doable. Just reject the bags that don't conform. You could also apply a bit more brute force and make them all 35, maybe. LDPE has a certain amount of give, though it does tend to buckle, and the seam may split sometime down the track. Give it a try. :)
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25090' dateline='1376572612'wonder if it would work on rolls?
Shrinkwrap certainly would work. Its just a matter of having the right dispenser so you don't get a big mess.
However
(you just knew there was a catch, didn't you?) there are many different shrinkwrap films, and they differ in both mechanical properties and chemical composition. And some of them contain that dreaded
PVC poison. While I've used a number of films industrially, I've never needed to investigate their archival qualities, so I can't offer any guidance at all.
By all means do some research and report back. But keep in mind they're not cheap, and you wouldn't be recycling waste plastic. Quite the opposite in fact. :(
oh
good points
here are my rolls
now, ... they don't look as nice as yours
2 X 20 - perth and Melbourne
they are in that pp stuff
and I have been trying to figure out how to make a tight neat roll as they are a little loose
cheers rob
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P8150027_01_zpsd45a8f57.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P8150028_01_zpsd5525b71.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P8150029_01_zps4fcfa265.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P8150030_zpsdbed6fab.jpg)
in case you are wondering - that is fluff from my wooly jumper
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25229' dateline='1376698379'they are in that pp stuff
and I have been trying to figure out how to make a tight neat roll as they are a little loose
Polypropylene is stiffer than Polyethylene. That's why they make album pages out of it. And why it crumples rather than bends.
I can't tell from those pics where you welded them, or how you aligned the coins in the bags. These aren't those little self-adhesive bags, are they? If they are, they're not airtight.
yeah
just the bag seal
no they are not airtight
should they be?
I thought coins need to breathe
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='25289' dateline='1376727807'I thought coins need to breathe
Air has lots of nasty stuff in it, especially in urban environments. Some of the chemicals will react with your coins, producing toning, verdigris or corrosion. I prefer to exclude as much air as possible.
Meanwhile, back at the packing line...
As I'm finally happy with the rolls, I figured it was time to go back to the individual coins, since I wasn't happy with the Excel solution. After about a dozen generations built on a modified roll databse, this is the current 2x2 label:
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/forum/Tag2.png)
And a print preview:
(http://fulvio.jovianprojects.com.au/coins/forum/Tag1.png)
Not quite happy with the heat sealing yet... I'm putting a stripe across the middle of the coin to stop it rotating in the sleeve, but for some reason its burning holes through the plastic adjacent to the coin. :(
No idea why.. every other seal is perfect, but this one consistently does this. Not that I think it lets air in, it seems to be sealed all around the holes, but it looks ugly... *sigh* More development to be done, eh?
Oh, and my bother-in-law dropped by as I was showing dad the latest generation, and decided he had to have it! I felt guilty about taking $10 off him, so I gave him a standard 2013 as a bonus with instructions to wait until we know mintages before spending it. :)
hey RG why not roll them in paper first like the good ole days..just a thought mate :)