Surprise!~ Surprise!~
Went to my local banks and Westpac today to see if the Coronations were still appearing!
NOPE!
Instead we now have nice new bright and very shiny unc 2012 $2 generic coins in the red security bags.
What a wonderful opportunity for those who missed out on this "great potential" coin when it was around about 8 months ago, to now add it to the collection!
Don't forget RAM reports only 1.8m minted in the year 2011/2012. With the 2011 coin showing the same mintage for the same period.
Sadly, we won't know the final mintage until the next annual report (2012/2013) is released! (Oct?)
Grab this (possible) rarity while you can!
They won't be scarce
Quote from: 'runway' pid='24939' dateline='1376484442'They won't be scarce
Interesting...
Runway, why do you think that?
They're not scarce NOW.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='24950' dateline='1376507660'They're not scarce NOW.
Thanks Fulvio, but because they show up in Security bags does not mean that they are not scarce.
There are two options:
1. Not all coins were released initially;
2. More coins were minted.
I have just spoken to a friend at the Mint and there was no definitive answer either way.
I suspect that because the Poppy was "possibly" re-minted, that the 2012 generic may remain at previously published figues.
Only the next annual report will confirm that. Anything else I believe is just speculation.
I am most interested to hear your opinion on this.
Sulla
===
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='25002' dateline='1376529198'...because they show up in Security bags does not mean that they are not scarce.
Correct. Its the large number showing up in circulation that means they're not scarce. Out of the 35,000 or so coins I've noodled recently, these are at least ten times more common than 2011. So much so that I've only been keeping errors and aUNC examples.
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='25002' dateline='1376529198'...because they show up in Security bags does not mean that they are not scarce.
No decimal coin released into circulation in recent years can be termed scarce except for unusual varieties or errors. Even your favourite coloured $2 coin is NEVER going to be scarce. Sure it'll be hoarded and not often found in change but if you want one you'll always be able to find one from a dealer or eBay sellers. And if you do not believe me then take the 1927 Parliament florin as a lesson. 2 million mintage from 86 years ago, released into circulation and still common as dirt in any grade up to UNC.
A scarce coin is one that is hard to find. Almost any non error / variety decimal coin you can think of that was released into circulation can be bought right now on eBay. By any sensible measure this means a coin IS NOT scarce. Despite what artificial hype you might like to create.
Heh.. I wouldn't classify most errors as scarce either, Mark. :)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='25015' dateline='1376533075'Heh.. I wouldn't classify most errors as scarce either, Mark. :)
If one was to accept your incorrect definition :dodgy: of what an error is then I guess you could argue that most errors are not scarce. But what you call flaws are.
However, if one accepts the correct definition of what an error then most of them are indeed scarce or even rare. But you'd have to put aside die cracks and planchet flaws as these are common in the pre-decimal series, less so for decimals.
Quote from: 'markn' pid='25012' dateline='1376532725'Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='25002' dateline='1376529198'...because they show up in Security bags does not mean that they are not scarce.
No decimal coin released into circulation in recent years can be termed scarce except for unusual varieties or errors. Even your favourite coloured $2 coin is NEVER going to be scarce. Sure it'll be hoarded and not often found in change but if you want one you'll always be able to find one from a dealer or eBay sellers. And if you do not believe me then take the 1927 Parliament florin as a lesson. 2 million mintage from 86 years ago, released into circulation and still common as dirt in any grade up to UNC.
A scarce coin is one that is hard to find. Almost any non error / variety decimal coin you can think of that was released into circulation can be bought right now on eBay. By any sensible measure this means a coin IS NOT scarce. Despite what artificial hype you might like to create.
The Canberra florin may be easily available but the issue price was 2/- which is equivalent to 20 cents.
The melt value alone on these is about $8, This means that these have increased in value by a multiple of 40, An MS62 coin (which are not that hard to find either) will get you about $70 that's a 350x increase in value .
I don't think any decimal mass produced coin will achieve that .:)
Anyway Canberra florins are NOT "Common" , They are the ROYALTY in the florin issues :yahoo: :)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='25019' dateline='1376533671'The Canberra florin may be easily available but the issue price was 2/- which is equivalent to 20 cents.
The melt value alone on these is about $8, This means that these have increased in value by a multiple of 40, An MS62 coin (which are not that hard to find either) will get you about $70 that's a 350x increase in value .
I don't think any decimal mass produced coin will achieve that .:)
Anyway Canberra florins are NOT "Common" , They are the ROYALTY in the florin issues :yahoo: :)
2 shillings in 1927 had the buying power of $7.21 today.
If you put that florin in the bank in 1927 it'd be worth $14.61 with compound interest at 5%, which is so much more sensible that hoarding it since then and melting it now...
only trouble with working thing out like that is that we had higher interest until recent years so the return would have been greater..sorry for splitting hairs but it could make a bit of a difference over that time :)
The 1927 Parliament House florin mintage of 2m is nothing out of the ordinary when mintages of that era are considered. A mintage of 2m was lower than recent averages for that time.
Production levels for the 2011, 2012, and Coronation coins (and Poppy) are dramatically lower than the recent averages.
It all has to be put into perspective.
I add to this my prediction that 2013 will be a bumper year for $2 std coin production, to back near average figures!
Stack the 2012 std while you have the opportunity without paying a premium.
Even if the RAMint produced more in the 2012/2013 financial year, the 2012 std will still be a very low mintage coin!
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='25043' dateline='1376552255'The 1927 Parliament House florin mintage of 2m is nothing out of the ordinary when mintages of that era are considered. A mintage of 2m was lower than recent averages for that time.
Production levels for the 2011, 2012, and Coronation coins (and Poppy) are dramatically lower than the recent averages.
It all has to be put into perspective.
I add to this my prediction that 2013 will be a bumper year for $2 std coin production, to back near average figures!
Stack the 2013 while you have the opportunity without paying a premium.
Even if the RAMint produced more in the 2012/2013 financial year, the 2012 std will still be a very low mintage coin!
I think I will stick to collecting Canberra Florins at least they are a great design :ok:
the $2 coin has an Aboriginal elder on one side and a Pommy elder on the other, Not an outstanding design by any stretch of the imagination.
I do have a full collection of $2 coins including the silver proofs simply because they are Aussie coins and I have to have them to make my collections more complete, NOT because I am particularly endeared to the design of this coin :angel:
The last 2 years with the poppy and the coronation have been a "Breath of fresh air" for these coins and I would imagine the mint will continue to produce Commemorative $2 each year now they know they are popular.
that will mean that every year there will be a mad rush for these coins, I'll just stick to getting a few and share what I don't really need:whistle2:
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='25043' dateline='1376552255'Production levels for the 2011, 2012, and Coronation coins (and Poppy) are dramatically lower than the recent averages.
Dramatically lower doesn't make them scarce. At 2 million mintage the available numbers of coins far exceeds the people who actually want to collect them. $2 dollar coins are the LEAST collected coin by far. Because of this you'll find that a 2 million coin mintage is FAR from scarce, especially when no-one actually wants the coin.
And the comparison with the Parliament florin is a perfectly valid one. How many collectors have a Parliament florin in their collection? Just about all of them. How many will have a 2012 $2 coin? Almost none. And yet the 2 million mintage of the Parliament florin is MORE than enough to satisfy collector demand. And remember that the survival rate of the Parliament is likely to be poor because many have ended up in the melt bucket.
Quotebecause many have ended up in the melt bucket.
NOOOOOOOOO :cray:
Lucky I am saving a few for prosperity :good:
They will have to get them out of my dead or dying fingers tho :ok:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='25046' dateline='1376553876'Quotebecause many have ended up in the melt bucket.
NOOOOOOOOO :cray:
Lucky I am saving a few for prosperity :good:
They will have to get them out of my dead or dying fingers tho :ok:
I admire your passion for the parliament florin and at least with the silver they are worth something regardless of grade.
Hoard up 2012 $2 coins and take them to a dealer in 10 years and I bet he/she will offer you.....$2 a coin. There's no sense in it.
I think we should all just leave Sulla alone. He will spend his money on dirt common circulation issues which will in turn leave more collectable coins in the market for all of us.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='25052' dateline='1376556638'I think we should all just leave Sulla alone. He will spend his money on dirt common circulation issues which will in turn leave more collectable coins in the market for all of us.
On the contrary , I believe we should all help him to appreciate his coins more and that way get WAY more out of them than trying to make a living out of them :ok:
He IS passionate about his coins, So we should nurture his interest and give him some pointers on how and what to collect.
A lot better than the poor sod raiding the banks and tying his money up on "Trendy" coins.
I recon give him a fair go and we may be able to turn him into a real collector one day :ok:
Quote from: 'markn' pid='25018' dateline='1376533489'I guess you could argue that most errors are not scarce. But what you call flaws are.
Most errors, yes, because things like double bars, stole cuds, fat 5's etc were a sizable percentage of the total mintage.
But some errors are extremely rare. I've got stuff that I've only ever seen one of, and yet I found two wavy 2's, which we all consider rare.
If there was any logic to this, those rare errors should be worth a fortune. but they're not. Clearly we have a ton of work to do to raise awareness.
And yes, flaws are unique, so they're beyond rare. Even the planchet flaws, because although there are lots of splits and tears and the like, no two are the same.
But anyway, regardless of our viewpoints on this, we do agree that even a couple million does not constitute a true rarity, let alone fifty million. Which of course doesn't stop many of us hanging onto most things under ten million, does it? ;)
Quote from: 'trout' pid='25044' dateline='1376552930'The last 2 years with the poppy and the coronation have been a "Breath of fresh air" for these coins
I couldn't agree more. Prior to this I never even bothered to look at a $2 coin, unless it looked UNC. This coronation chase distracted me for a few weeks, and in examining 35,000-ish of them I found quite a few errors I wasn't expecting. This would never have happened without the coronation design, and its given me a little knowledge and respect I never had for them previously.
Plus the sheer volume I was retaining forced me to develop a new storage system, since my old ways simply broke down under the strain.
All in all, I'm happy to call this issue a success, no matter what happens to the price in future. Standard design.. well, not so much. I'll happily hold them until mintages are in, but I don't expect anything miraculous. Far from it.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='25052' dateline='1376556638'I think we should all just leave Sulla alone. He will spend his money on dirt common circulation issues which will in turn leave more collectable coins in the market for all of us.
Yesterday's dirt common circulation issues are the coins highly sought after today!
Today's dirt common circulation issues will be the coins highly sought after tomorrow!
QuoteTrout wrote:
On the contrary , I believe we should all help him to appreciate his coins more and that way get WAY more out of them than trying to make a living out of them :ok:
He IS passionate about his coins, So we should nurture his interest and give him some pointers on how and what to collect.
A lot better than the poor sod raiding the banks and tying his money up on "Trendy" coins.
I recon give him a fair go and we may be able to turn him into a real collector one day :ok:
Thanks Trout. As I wrote earlier my interest is mainly in one dollar rolls. (I currently have a good number of them!) The two dollar spree is just a temporary diversion. Once I satisfy that itch, I will go back to my other main interest - collecting silver lumps.
Rolls are nice but frustrating how certain people are able to get hold of these for purpose of selling at a premium.
What does it take to get Chubb coin rolls ?
Certain that Q is on every members thoughts :)
find a bank that gets mint issued coin and you can make a very handsome living at selling coin, I see many security bags of 2013 coin selling for 3-4-5x their face value on Ebay.
You just get them from the bank. Its luck of the draw although some banks seem to get more new coins than others.
What banks use Chubb?
Enworb is spot on!
Why do some banks get new coins; and the same bank a suburb away does not?
One branch gets Toll rolls. Next branch gets Toll bags!
One branch gets new coinsl Nextr branch does not!
Chubb rolls are pretty much restricted to ANZ from what I have seen!
RUNWAY the answers to your questions have been revealed many times!
Read recent threads re coloured and std $2 coins!
Hard work makes you lucky!
ANZ are the most likely to have chubb rolls.
'Hard work makes you lucky!"
If you have to work to get something then it means that it is not a result of luck but rather effort.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='25640' dateline='1377000360'If you have to work to get something then it means that it is not a result of luck but rather effort.
You got
that right! :)
Armaguard have pretty much taken over coin deliveries this year. Apart from ANZ,
(who I don't use), everyone else seems to be Armaguard. One exception is a branch who won't tell me who their supplier is, but I suspect it might be Toll.. just have to do some legwork to make sure.
Everything goes out in bags, of which there are three types.. clear, solid and striped. New coins are always in striped bags. However, Armaguard
DO supply rolls to branches which have roll dispensing machines. Legend has it these rolls are also sometimes UNC, but I can't confirm this as yet, though I am trying...
As to why some branches get new and some don't, that's down to luck it seems. As far as I can tell, trucks go out with a mix of new and old coin sacks. Which sacks the guys reach for at any given stop seems to be random. And this is where the effort comes in.... If you want new coin, you have to phone AND visit a heap of branches, get to know them, and then be lucky.
Sometimes things just go right for you.. I scored a heap of Suffragettes and Volunteers rolls in Canberra once, because I tagged along with a friend who stopped in on our way elsewhere. I was asking about Coronations the other day, and noticed striped blue bags on a trolly... walked out with $50 of 2012 5ยข. And of course my Coronations I finally found after a few near misses. Oh, and that sack of poppies of course.. I didn't even notice at the time! :)
So yeah, put in some effort and it should eventually reward you with a bit of luck. :angel:
ANZ you reckon is it as simple as going to ANZ asking for Chubb mint rolls of coins how does Mr General public go about this when they don't bank there?
Quote from: 'runway' pid='25647' dateline='1377001663'ANZ you reckon is it as simple as going to ANZ asking for Chubb mint rolls of coins how does Mr General public go about this when they don't bank there?
You open an account and stick a dollar in it. :P
And best of luck getting anything new from Chubb. Armaguard have an exclusive contract with the mint, and nobody else has any, except maybe at super-busy times when they beg Armaguard for coin. I've seen that happen about once every five years.
Maybe I should open ANZ account
Hey Fulvio do Armaguard roll coins or just bag them these days?
What paper do they use in rolled coins to the market?
I'm interested in reply :)
Quote from: 'runway' pid='25651' dateline='1377002494'What paper do they use in rolled coins to the market?
The same old paper they were using, though sometimes its turned inside out.
As near as I can tell, all the bags originate with Armaguard, but the other companies likely kept their rolling machines. I've certainly seen both Chubb and Brinks rolls, and I can't see Armaguard making them.
I got 4 x $1 armaguard rolls from the bank on monday :good:
and here's proof for those that think I lie (http://i41.tinypic.com/m81vn4.jpg)
I should have asked for the HUGE bag full of them..next time :laugh2:
Who says you lie AJ,wash their mouth out with soap LOL,were they all one year or mixed ?
Quote from: 'runway' pid='25647' dateline='1377001663'ANZ you reckon is it as simple as going to ANZ asking for Chubb mint rolls of coins how does Mr General public go about this when they don't bank there?
If you don't ask, you will never know!Ask. Tell them you are a coin collector. They are not going to bite you! All they can say is NO!
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='25655' dateline='1377003511'I got 4 x $1 armaguard rolls from the bank on monday :good:
I have unbranded 2012 rolls from 6 months ago.
Go back and ask for more!
all mixed years and the bloody tail tail rolls I really hate :dash1: nearly finished this lot so I hope they still have some left :)
New UNC 2012 coins no longer available at my local Westpac.
Back to well circulated mixed $2 in the red TOLL bags the way it was before 24th June 2013.
It has been a terrific ride!
Who knows? The 2012 generic may still be only 1.8m.
Keen to learn if others here are still finding the Coronation, or generics (12 and 13) in the red security bags or rolls?