I think Trout you said you did it but we managed to remove the purple paint from the circulation coin with minimal (no) effort. I now have a naked previously purple $2 coin.
Pics coming soon
Why? {I know; because you could.}
Recommend you do not post pics and that you delete or edit your post!
======================================================
Extract from Crimes (Currency) Act 1981
Defacing or destroying current coins or current paper money
16. A person shall not, without the consent, in writing, of an authorised person, intentionally deface, disfigure, mutilate or destroy any coin or paper money that is lawfully current in Australia.
Penalty:
in the case of a person, not being a body corporate – $5,000 or imprisonment for two years, or both; or
in the case of a person, being a body corporate – $10,000.
Note: 'Paper money' means money comprising a banknote written, printed or otherwise made on paper or any other material. Paper money shall be taken to be current paper money if it is lawfully current in Australia or in a country other than Australia by virtue of a law in force in Australia or in that country, as the case may be.
All Australian banknotes, present and all past issues, are lawfully current in Australia.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00781
I haven't yet said what happened so here are a few options.
1. My 6 year old swallowed the purple coin and it reappeared without it's coloured stripes.
2. As I walked by a bowl of acetone it fell in and the purple came off.
3. I soaked the coin in acetone to remove fingerprints so I could keep the coin in pristine condition in my collection, quite by accident I concluded that the purple came off.
4. I left the coin outside and acid rain removed the purple.
5. I went to the chlorinated indoor pool for a swim with $2 in my pocket. When I went to spend my $2 the purple was gone!
6. I gave my children a purple $2, keen to get them into collecting this coin is perfect and intriguing to them. I'm stuffed if I know what they did but they came and saw me and the purple was gone!
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='23158' dateline='1375001443'I haven't yet said what happened so here are a few options.
1. My 6 year old swallowed the purple coin and it reappeared without it's coloured stripes.
2. As I walked by a bowl of acetone it fell in and the purple came off.
3. I soaked the coin in acetone to remove fingerprints so I could keep the coin in pristine condition in my collection, quite by accident I concluded that the purple came off.
4. I left the coin outside and acid rain removed the purple.
5. I went to the chlorinated indoor pool for a swim with $2 in my pocket. When I went to spend my $2 the purple was gone!
6. I gave my children a purple $2, keen to get them into collecting this coin is perfect and intriguing to them. I'm stuffed if I know what they did but they came and saw me and the purple was gone!
Yes I think the important word in the section is "intentionally" and you can't help bad luck. However I don't think I would be keeping it after option 1. That implies it went in one end and came out the other. I think I would be letting the coin go.
the guys at the Goulburn RSL club said that they opened a poppy $2 roll and a very many of the the poppies had fallen off, so they were really disappointed as the rolls were for the $10 fundraising cards for the RSL
I think that the padded ink has some fine tuning to be done yet
i'd be very dubious of things like colour variations if they are so susceptible to damage
Quote from: 'SULLA' pid='23154' dateline='1374999365'Recommend you do not post pics and that you delete or edit your post!
======================================================
Extract from Crimes (Currency) Act 1981
Defacing or destroying current coins or current paper money
16. A person shall not, without the consent, in writing, of an authorised person, intentionally deface, disfigure, mutilate or destroy any coin or paper money that is lawfully current in Australia.
Penalty:
in the case of a person, not being a body corporate – $5,000 or imprisonment for two years, or both; or
in the case of a person, being a body corporate – $10,000.
Note: 'Paper money' means money comprising a banknote written, printed or otherwise made on paper or any other material. Paper money shall be taken to be current paper money if it is lawfully current in Australia or in a country other than Australia by virtue of a law in force in Australia or in that country, as the case may be.
All Australian banknotes, present and all past issues, are lawfully current in Australia.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00781
By virtue of buying a coin it means that I own it.
If I want to deface it in anyway is my choice.
The ONLY time it becomes a problem is if I want to spend it or sell it.
If I KEEP it then that is the end of the story (I normally chuck em down the well).
The defacement laws are there to try and stop altering coins to try and make them a higher face value.
Remember when the $1 coin first came into play and people were painting 10 cent coins gold :dodgy::dodgy:
The old rule where any defacement of the Monarch was a treasonable offence just wouldn't tread water in Australia .
The RULE/outrage that will be imposed on coin alterers/fakers that try and falsify an error for profit on a coin by the collecting community will be swift and immediate :good:
So your still running the line that "I" defaced the purple coin??????
Now in your words, cause you seem to be the judge, the jury and the executioner on these things, what actually is an error??
Is it a coin that comes from the mint and is different to other coins in shape, colour or form???
Forget the fact that you acetoned "YOUR" coin to see what you could do to "produce" an error, I did nothing to my coin that is exactly how it arrived out of its mint security bag straight from the CBA straight from the mint. So if my coin was a different colour to other coins straight from the mint, would my coin being different imply a fault??
QuoteBy virtue of buying a coin it means that I own it.
If I want to deface it in anyway is my choice.
The ONLY time it becomes a problem is if I want to spend it or sell it.
If I KEEP it then that is the end of the story (I normally chuck em down the well).
The defacement laws are there to try and stop altering coins to try and make them a higher face value.
Remember when the $1 coin first came into play and people were painting 10 cent coins gold DodgyDodgy
The old rule where any defacement of the Monarch was a treasonable offence just wouldn't tread water in Australia .
The RULE/outrage that will be imposed on coin alterers/fakers that try and falsify an error for profit on a coin by the collecting community will be swift and immediate Good
Sorry Mr Trout, but your interpretation of the law is open to argument simply because you are making claims NOT mentioned/covered in the Act.
The law is clear and there are no exceptions!
If you wish I can elaborate, but if I do, my reputation with others here will suffer more!
16. A person shall not, without the consent, in writing, of an authorised person, intentionally deface, disfigure, mutilate or destroy any coin or paper money that is lawfully current in Australia.
That is what the law states.
Where did you get all the other fluff?
:)
:spamguy::spamguy::spamguy::spamguy:
:spamguy::spamguy::spamguy::spamguy:
Lovely :spamguy: Wonderful :spamguy:
You can't have egg, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam.
ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yaaaawn ........ perhaps Trout photoshopped it. (More to his shed than meets the eye ....... nudge nudge wink wink say no more!)
QuoteNow in your words, cause you seem to be the judge, the jury and the executioner on these things,
Not at all mate.
I simply produced a coin that you have purported to have "Found".
You "may" have done this but Your attitude towards the coin collectors buying on eBay supplied your own "Noose"
This coin IS new and there may be variations in the colour.
This at the moment isn't a proven fact and your "Jump on the bandwagon" listing and the TOTAL disregard for buyers I personally find Distasteful and I feel that I am not the only member on this site that feels this way.
If you feel affronted by this then I am sorry, But I do tend to call a spade a spade and that is just the way I am built.
If you don't like it then simply don't read any of my posts :ok:
I have been on coin sites for a few years now and there will ALWAYS been the odd poster that requires authentication of an "Error" before posting it on eBay, You however didn't care and listed the coin anyway thinking that "All ebayers are Mugs".
Totally inappropriate and to quote RG "Disgusting"
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23192' dateline='1375016088'...what actually is an error??
An error is something that goes wrong with the minting process. Such as a die breaking for example. Not the use of different dies, which is a variety. Nor an accident such as a cold shut, out-of-collar strike, misfeed or similar, which are flaws.
Paint variations would clearly be flaws.
Unless tampered with outside the mint, which would make them PMD. Not that I think anyone is saying you did that. What everyone is upset about is your attitude towards people, not the flawed coin itself.
I'm aware this is going off topic but I disagree Fulvio. An error is a malfunction of the press such as when the planchet fails to feed or follow the process correctly causing an out of collar, partial collar, broadstrike, ramstrike, double strike, multiple strike, off-centre, brockage etc etc.
Fulvio you're the first person I've come across who has decided that striking mishaps are not errors. Kudos on taking an contrary standpoint. That being said I completely and utterly disagree with you :)
On another point too, I read ***moderator edit*** and got coat hangered for it.
What is the going rate for these $2 coins in your opinion, anyone can answer that??
I'd be interested to see the values???
QuoteWhere did you get all the other fluff?
Out of my bellybutton :laugh2:
I have NEVER heard of anyone getting thrown in jail for drilling a coin and using it for a pendant.:ok:
*snip*
*moderator edit* You were told that discussion on this issue was to cease until further notice.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23215' dateline='1375055715'On another point too, I read that **moderator edit the moderator edit** and got coat hangered for it.
What is the going rate for these $2 coins in your opinion, anyone can answer that??
I'd be interested to see the values???
Do an eBay completed item search.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23217' dateline='1375056332'*snip*
*moderator edit* You were told that discussion on this issue was to cease until further notice.
I SOOO want to reply to this post but I bow to Moderation and will hold my toung :ok:
I have done a sold auction search that covered 3 weeks which is why I asked the question, I know what the average sale price of these coins is when you factor in the all the costs associated with buying this coin individually and in batches to accumulate 100 of them.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23220' dateline='1375057381'...average sale price...
Isn't it obvious yet that nobody else cares? What the price is today, what it was yesterday and what it will be tomorrow may all as well be random numbers, none of which reflect actual value.
There are 2 million of these things. They are being rationed so nobody can corner the market. They are also susceptible to being stashed, and destroyed in circulation. Their value therefore is completely unknown, even compared to similar mintages which did not have the same distribution characteristics.
I reckon ten bucks long term, but that's just a number plucked out of thin air.
Mark and PP:
The reason for calling mistrikes flaws rather than errors is that they are unique, and therefore not able to be included in an error collection. If you wanted to collect a full set of errors, you could. Even if there are 20 different error types on one coin, there are many examples of each and every one, so you have a shot at it. But there is only
one single example of any given flaw, whether it is a cold shut or a brockage. So that's like trying to include the Mona Lisa in your collection of art prints... simply not gonna happen.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='23230' dateline='1375076790'But there is only one single example of any given flaw, whether it is a cold shut or a brockage. So that's like trying to include the Mona Lisa in your collection of art prints... simply not gonna happen.
Broadstrikes can be more off center than one another, they can be spread out more than one another. Same with off-centers. Same with ram-strikes. Saying one broadstrike is equivalent to all others is flawed logic.
Actual value is todays value, like stocks and shares they move around but you can only buy them at todays value. The average price of these coins including postage has been $9.35, now factor in all your time buying, bidding, paying buyers, collecting deliveries etc, and $10 a coin is pretty much market value, so I am scratching my head why that Sulla fellow got hammered for selling them at what is market value. If anyone here has these coins and they want to sell them for face value I'll buy everyone you have off you right now.
After all very few ppl here sell anything of value at face value and no one here sells anything on here or on Ebay at a sizeable discount of its current value.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23239' dateline='1375080709'
The Ignore list works :yahoo:
Never had to use it before on a coin forum.
:wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23239' dateline='1375080709'Actual value is todays value, like stocks and shares they move around but you can only buy them at todays value. The average price of these coins including postage has been $9.35, now factor in all your time buying, bidding, paying buyers, collecting deliveries etc, and $10 a coin is pretty much market value, so I am scratching my head why that Sulla fellow got hammered for selling them at what is market value. If anyone here has these coins and they want to sell them for face value I'll buy everyone you have off you right now.
After all very few ppl here sell anything of value at face value and no one here sells anything on here or on Ebay at a sizeable discount of its current value.
Rules of this forum are that you must have 50 posts to sell things. These rules were made by forum members. Please stop flogging this horse.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='23239' dateline='1375080709'After all very few ppl here sell anything of value at face value and no one here sells anything on here or on Ebay at a sizeable discount of its current value.
Why are you :dead_horse: ???
I can get these at $2 with a bit of legwork and luck. So can anyone else.
IF someone offers me $10, I'll take it. Who wouldn't? But I'm a collector, not a dealer. And so are most here. Who
cares what the "market" is doing, especially when its a BS market like ePay? So do us all a favour and give it a rest, willya?
Mark, you prove my point, you see? Every one is individual, and no two are the same. Just like all types of flaws. And unlike all the types of errors, where many identical examples exist.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='23250' dateline='1375085219'Mark, you prove my point, you see? Every one is individual, and no two are the same. Just like all types of flaws. And unlike all the types of errors, where many identical examples exist.
OK I got confused there because of your fuzzy border between a flaw and an error. Let's go back to the beginning.
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='23198' dateline='1375020872'An error is something that goes wrong with the minting process. Such as a die breaking for example. Not the use of different dies, which is a variety. Nor an accident such as a cold shut, out-of-collar strike, misfeed or similar, which are flaws.
An error is something that goes wrong with the minting process. Agreed. It is extremely arguable that a die breaking is unintentional. I was a mechanical engineer in a former life and I'd bet you a dollar they PLANNED on dies cracking. They just didn't care. It's all part of die wear and back in the day with the lack of options with regards to tool steel it was most likely completely unavoidable unless you wanted to produce a very low number of coins with each die pair.
A cold shut or a lamination flaw could arguably called "flaws" because I guess they are technically not problems with the minting process. They are, however, problems with the process that makes blanks and if you're going to look at it holistically then they ARE problems with the minting process. If, for example, an off-metal planchet gets into a drum and is struck then that most definitely IS an error. And 99.9% of people would call it so. But, in isolation the minting process has worked fine. It's the material handling prior to the minting that has failed. But the process as a whole has failed. So, it's an error.
And finally:
out-of-collar strike, misfeed or similarTo say these aren't problems with the minting process is just silly. They are by their very nature, problems with the minting process. A blank fails to feed properly. A problem with the press. The collar die doesn't return. A problem with the press. One of the dies is loose and an off center strike happens on one side. Again, a problem with the press. A coin is struck twice because the feeder fingers don't remove it. A problem with the press. A coin adheres to the top or bottom die and brockages occur. A problem with the press. All instances of the minting process not working properly. And thus errors.
Honestly Fulvio you're creating distinction for the sake of it. I'd suggest you take a look at the book "Official Price Guide to Mint Errors" by Alan Herbert. He's quite happy to call everything an error. And then sub-classifies the error by the stage of the minting process which is the root cause of the error. For example, all cold shuts, lamination flaws, split planchets, and off-metal planchets would be under the "planchet division errors". Die cracks, hub doubling, cuds, collar breaks, and die scratches would be under the "die division errors". And so on. It's a sensible way of dividing things up as it looks at the root cause of the error.
He also quite cheerfully admits that the lines between a variety and error are blurred. And I agree. Take the 2000 $1/10c mule. It was made in error. If they made just 1 would it be an error rather than a variety? How about 10? 100? 1000? At what point does an "error" start being a variety? Of course there's no answer and that's why I think it's silly to try to set hard and fast rules. Call a 2000 $1/10c mule an error and I'll agree with you. Call it a variety and you won't get an argument from me either.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='23249' dateline='1375085190'Rules of this forum are that you must have 50 posts to sell things. These rules were made by forum members. Please stop flogging this horse.
thanks for the reminder PP
I had forgotten that and there are a few new members with items that they have expressed an interest in selling
maybe we (i.e. other forum members) need to remind new members about that in the future
Quote from: 'markn' pid='23258' dateline='1375087476'...He's quite happy to call everything an error...
We could just call them all "coins", which would also be accurate, though not very productive.
Since we are collectors, our interest really lies in the end product, not the processes by which they occur, except as a means to understanding what they are. As such, we need to distinguish not between where in the process something went wrong, but rather on what we have in our collections, and why.
To call everything an error serves us no real purpose, because we can search forever for say a split planchet, or an out-of-collar strike or whatever, and never find it. Why? Because the one we saw on eBay or in a catalogue was
the only one in existence. We may find one similar, but never the same.
By differentiating between repeatable errors and unique one-offs we know what we can and what we cannot reasonably expect to find. Its like seeking a set of upsets or a set of rabbit ears. Both are doable, because even the rare ones are not unique. However seeking a set of cold shuts or off-centre strikes is completely pointless. There IS no set to collect. So lumping them all in to the error basket only serves to muddy things.
And yes, there are things that sit on border lines. Off-metal strikes and mules for example. Varieties? Yes. Errors? Mmmm, maybe yes. Flaws? I'd say not, even though there may be a single example struck. As you say, its not just about numbers.
Hi all,
I believe defacing a note or coin is illegal, however look at this story the Daily Telegraph ran in March this year. Link below:
The many faces of Queen Elizabeth etched illegally (http://www.news.com.au/technology/queens-face-defaced-on-5-note-blog/story-e6frfro0-1226597260857)
The funny part, is the headline states "illegally", but then they copy the pictures and post a link to the guys website for everyone to see the rest. Am I missing something here??
A nice aside from this spat jimmy
Quote from: 'jimmy1979' pid='23295' dateline='1375101375'Hi all,
I believe defacing a note or coin is illegal, however look at this story the Daily Telegraph ran in March this year. Link below:
The many faces of Queen Elizabeth etched illegally (http://www.news.com.au/technology/queens-face-defaced-on-5-note-blog/story-e6frfro0-1226597260857)
The funny part, is the headline states "illegally", but then they copy the pictures and post a link to the guys website for everyone to see the rest. Am I missing something here??
They are great
Love the Vulcan Queen
They could be photo-shopped as well
I think the same type of laws apply to US coins.
However the "Hobo Nickel" is a widely collected "defaced" coin :ok:
Hobo Nickels are incredible little pieces of "folk" art that only enhance the coins. imo. Just luv em.!!
Riding riding riding
(http://www.australian-threepence.com/images/george-cycling-small.jpg)
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='23460' dateline='1375252980'Riding riding riding
(http://www.australian-threepence.com/images/george-cycling-small.jpg)
Thats cool PP ! :good:
I think this sort of thing is called "Trench Art" and as such is interesting because of the history associated with it :ok:
Being Completely Un Arty I really appreciate the skills on this type of metalwork.!! Some of the U.S. Nickels are incredible.!! Great coin P.P..!!
Surely PPH you could have found an easier canvas to draw on..........hehehe
I am another of the Un-Arty types. I'm not sure where I got that now but it's very cool.
Here's a nice horse-ie one
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P7300012_zpsef2bf231.jpg)(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P7300013_zpsf323c710.jpg)
I reckon this one is the original 'B' mintmark aussie coin!!
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/auntyrobbs/P7300014_zps9bf6c9b2.jpg)
Nice horsie
I trust those coins are not suggestions for a new issue...........?
What, there going to issue blanks for us to do pickies on, sweet............