http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCARCE-1925-PENNY-VF30-APCGS-6-PEARLS-cv450-/321173037053
Look past the plastic and this coin would probably grade aF , still a collectable coin $150-$200 :ok:
Not a PCGS slab, it's much bigger.
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='23071' dateline='1374924093'Not a PCGS slab, it's much bigger.
Looks like a APCGS slab to ne :angel:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='23072' dateline='1374924208'Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='23071' dateline='1374924093'Not a PCGS slab, it's much bigger.
Looks like a APCGS slab to ne :angel:
It looks different to both. My guess is APCGS have changed theirs to look suspiciously closer to the real PCGS.
I messaged seller, he said
"The coin is in the slab that apcgs uses, There labels are encased inside there slabs"
But from looking at other APCGS slabs *yawn* it looks completely different.
Im pretty sure its PCGS. Have a look at the second photo, bottom right corner. You can see the reverse of PCGS which is usually placed there.
Hmmmm, sneaky batsturds,it is a PCGS in reverse at bottom right like Enworb said.
Very very dodgy
The one positive is that it is probably graded about right for once. Not an aussie VF but VF30 seems about right for Sheldon.
So they've taken that next step to open a PCGS slab and use it as their own??? That's overstepping the mark.
Down the bottom edge looks different to a PCGS slab, is that how they've opened it and reclosed it?
photoshop
That might be damage from when it was opened.
Don't think its been through photoshop. You can see shadows over the stickers.
(http://www.australian-threepence.com/images/pmgs.jpg)
LOLOLOL
Ooooh, my flavourite! Never seen one in that grade before. :)
You know how we were discussing "basement slabbers" the other day? "APCGS" is one such. The eBay username, "investego", is one of several alt-IDs employed by the owner-operator of the Port Macquarie Gold & Coin Shop / APCGS to spam their alleged TPG on other forums. Do a search for "APCGS" right here on ACF and you'll find several threads about them.
At least they seem to have figured out the codes for the Sheldon System now; they used to grade all their coins "MS", and seemed confused when this mistake was pointed out to them.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='23082' dateline='1374926629'So they've taken that next step to open a PCGS slab and use it as their own??? That's overstepping the mark.
Down the bottom edge looks different to a PCGS slab, is that how they've opened it and reclosed it?
Hey, waste not, want not. If you've surgically opened a slab to extract the contents, why throw away a perfectly good plastic holder when it can be recycled? :beta:
I think this makes it serious enough for PCGS to get involved. I have always though the play on the PCGS name warranted legal action. If APCGS played their own game then they should go for it, but they don't, they are riding on the PCGS back with no sound numismatic knowledge. They really should be ashamed.
Can ACCC do anything about this or am i being naive
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23110' dateline='1374967012'Can ACCC do anything about this or am i being naive
When registering my name trading name I was of the opinion that any business or trading name had to be registered unless it was your actual name (at least in Qld).
I can't see Australian Professional Coin Grading Services registered on the ASIC website although Australian Coin Grading Services was registered up until 2002 when it was deregistered.
Name: AUSTRALIAN COIN GRADING SERVICE PTY LTD
ACN: 067 002 135
ABN: 11 067 002 135
Registration date: 31/10/1994
Next review date:
Status: Deregistered
Date deregistered: 9/06/2002
Type: Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Locality of registered office:
Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission
No idea if they are one and the same but probably not. You would just have to question whether it is worthwhile reporting an unregistered trader.
I know that this mob are riding on the back of the PCGS success, Simply by using the name APCGS :ok:
when these first started to appear the grades were quite frankly ridicules, they even had a MS 35 grade :laugh2:
This coin however (and to my surprise) is correctly graded IMHO.
I am not sure if they have upped their game and employed someone that can actually grade correctly and knows the Sheldon system, Or they simply "got lucky" with this coin.
Anyway IF they are "Fair Dinkum" about what they are doing then they should choose a unique name for the company and not one that has ANY similarity with any of the other grading companies.
A simple name and not an acronym would be perfect.
The concept of a grading company based in Australia is good BUT it has to be done well and the grading has to be consistent and accurate ALL of the time :ok:
I have sent the following email to the seller:
QUOTE:
Can you please explain as to why the coin shown shows a APCGS Sticker at the top of the slab whereas a closer look to the bottom left shows the initials PCGS. This tells me that this slabbed coin has been tampered with and as such is not what it appears to be. I shall not bid on this coin unless I receive a reply. Regards.
UNQUOTE
I shall post any responses.
Oh look, it says new slabs.
APCGS (http://apcgs.com.au/)
Am I correct in thinking these PCCB slabs have/are being used by chinese counterfeiters of PCGS slabs to dupe people??
edit to add: You can buy them on ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-PCS-HI-Q-Safety-PCCB-Certified-Slab-Coins-Holder-Fits-NGC-PCGS-ANACS-40mm-/190864864966?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c706eb6c6&nma=true&si=rqWKL3yNhGqOBeAK%252F5UQX4MVqwc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) from China.
Just had a look at their website
http://apcgs.com.au/ (http://apcgs.com.au/)
It looks like the lower right initials on the slab there is actually PCCB, which when you look at the reverse pic underneath looks like PCGS.
Perhaps just another cunning plan involving a turnip .......
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='23111' dateline='1374968451'Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23110' dateline='1374967012'Can ACCC do anything about this or am i being naive
When registering my name trading name I was of the opinion that any business or trading name had to be registered unless it was your actual name (at least in Qld).
I can't see Australian Professional Coin Grading Services registered on the ASIC website although Australian Coin Grading Services was registered up until 2002 when it was deregistered.
Name: AUSTRALIAN COIN GRADING SERVICE PTY LTD
ACN: 067 002 135
ABN: 11 067 002 135
Registration date: 31/10/1994
Next review date:
Status: Deregistered
Date deregistered: 9/06/2002
Type: Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Locality of registered office:
Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission
No idea if they are one and the same but probably not. You would just have to question whether it is worthwhile reporting an unregistered trader.
So can someone just register the trading name APCGS, then shut them down?
You beat me to it PPH ....... excuse my doubling up there .....
BTW I love the Slabbed Lifesaver ....... and perhaps Enworbs comment (LOLOLOL) may have been LOLLY ...... (oh dear)
Searching APCGS domain details provides an ABN.
Then searching the ABN provides the info that it is a sole trader and that they are not currently registered for GST. (The proprietor's name, a different one to the domain registered name, is shown on the ABN lookup site)
A search of the ASIC site (who now do all business names nationally) shows APCGS is a registered Business Name (to the same person as the ABN) and is registered to 01/11/2014
PCCB.... jeez they look very similar to PCGS slabs. Opening the door for dodgy operators. I don't like it one bit.....
:i_agree: Enworb, from the back you would swear it says PCGS, especially if you were used to looking at them. Interesting how your original posted item obverse (1925 Penny) had the bottom cut off the slab picture which would have shown it as PCCB!!!
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='23127' dateline='1374975963'So can someone just register the trading name APCGS, then shut them down?
I suppose you could if their name isn't registered but could be expensive. Think my registration was about $250 for 3 years.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='23118' dateline='1374973293'I have sent the following email to the seller:
QUOTE:
Can you please explain as to why the coin shown shows a APCGS Sticker at the top of the slab whereas a closer look to the bottom left shows the initials PCGS. This tells me that this slabbed coin has been tampered with and as such is not what it appears to be. I shall not bid on this coin unless I receive a reply. Regards.
UNQUOTE
I shall post any responses.
I have a response and here it is:
Down the bottom it shows PCCB which is the produces Im guessing of this slab.
Cheers Shane
- investego
Still I am not enlightened.
Shane. :dodgy: :shok:
Quote from: 'Robster' pid='23243' dateline='1375083344'Shane. :dodgy: :shok:
Yeah..
Robster, I don't think it's the Shane you're thinking of (CCF), although I think he may have a surname starting with the same initial, perhaps even the same surname.
Enworb would probably be able to confirm that it's not the CCF Shane though.
(Long way from Stanthorpe to Wauchope)
Its another shane that mos people would be aware of.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23257' dateline='1375087134'Its another shane that mos people would be aware of.
How do you know it's another Shane? He's got the same name.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23257' dateline='1375087134'Its another shane that mos people would be aware of.
:huh: Enlighten me please.
Just a thought .....
I don't think CCF Shane would be sending his coins off to the US for slabbing if he was a part of APCGS, but rather he'd be flogging his own stuff, especially on CCF.
Quote from: 'accumulator' pid='23260' dateline='1375088047'Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23257' dateline='1375087134'Its another shane that mos people would be aware of.
:huh: Enlighten me please.
Shane Williams. The shanew over on CCF that has an extremely high opinion of the size of his ..... uhhh .......error collection is a Shane Williams. The person who owns the domain name www.apcgs.com.au is also a Shane Williams. The person selling the slab this thread is talking about is also a Shane. They may or may not be the same person.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='23261' dateline='1375088192'Just a thought .....
I don't think CCF Shane would be sending his coins of to the US for slabbing if he was a part of APCGS, but rather he'd be flogging his own stuff, especially on CCF.
Someone has already tried spamming the hell out of CCF about APCGS with a few different identities. They all got banned.
I just recall him saying he had the funds to back an Aussie T.P.G. if he could find a partner.! (On another forum about 12 months ago.)
I have been away for a couple of days and have been busy catching up with all the stuff that has been happening (add quote- "like sands through the hourglass".) "You hang up, no- You hang up, no- You hang up.!!:kez_15:
Yes Robster, you're correct with that, it's in the thread
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=131879&whichpage=1 (http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=131879&whichpage=1)
Mark, yes I can remember something like that happening.
I pretty sure Enworb's met him in person, hence I was pretty sure he'd be on the money. If he was a TPG then I don't think he'd have asked so many of the grading / buying questions as he has.
Though, never say never I suppose, could have fooled us all (well me at least).
QuoteYou hang up, no- You hang up, no- You hang up.!!
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
I bet Stefano is still alive ..........
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='23268' dateline='1375089072'If he was a TPG then I don't think he'd have asked so many of the grading / buying questions as he has.
OK. So according to shanew on the CCF forum he bought a prototype pre-decimal note printing plate from an eBay auction. When Tony James wrote about the same plate owned by the same Shane Williams apparently he'd found it somewhere else. Somewhere that sounded a lot more interesting that simply buying it off of eBay.
Perhaps it's an honest mistake. Perhaps it isn't.
Yes Mark, I read on a thread that the story of the plate was not the same in the article as opposed to the CCF story. When I read that was the case, I thought perhaps the article story may have been the story of from whom Shane bought it, rather than Shane's story. (I haven't read the article so forgive my ignorance).
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='23272' dateline='1375090830'Yes Mark, I read on a thread that the story of the plate was not the same in the article as opposed to the CCF story. When I read that was the case, I thought perhaps the article story may have been the story of from whom Shane bought it, rather than Shane's story. (I haven't read the article so forgive my ignorance).
OK so let's add a pre-decimal printing plate found in a garage sale. A pre-decimal printing printing plate found on eBay. And don't forget the solid gold dollar coin one of his sons found in coins they withdrew from the bank. This guy is about the luckiest man alive.
Perhaps I am coming off bitter and twisted but in all my years I've never known someone to have so much "luck".:kez_11:
Lucky ..... yes indeed and he didn't mind playing games with us at times either ........ if I recall correctly you prompted him once to .... come out with it ..... instead of beating around the bush.
PS: I don't think you're bitter or twisted, just rational and not gullable.
Oh geez it just gets better. I haven't looked at CCF for a while but I just ducked over there and found this.
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=154374
Mr Lucky has found a gold sovereign in an old pilots cap. Honestly, you couldn't make these stories up......
Mark, you are really ..... really starting to convince me ...........
camera at the ready ..... forceps, scalpel ..... delivering the baby ...... hang on I know it might be close to the right date, but I thought it was a boy (George)! ..... Boy George!!!! Karmacomedian!!!
I know that one pair of my great, great, grandparents came out from England in 1859 on the Palmyra and the only money they had was 10 sovereigns sewn into his belt for safekeeping. Cost them a pound each for the trip.
Damn, why did I have to know that ...... now the sovereign discovery almost sounds plausible.
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='23288' dateline='1375098718'Mark, you are really ..... really starting to convince me ...........
camera at the ready ..... forceps, scalpel ..... delivering the baby ...... hang on I know it might be close to the right date, but I thought it was a boy (George)! ..... Boy George!!!! Karmacomedian!!!
I know that one pair of my great, great, grandparents came out from England in 1859 on the Palmyra and the only money they had was 10 sovereigns sewn into his belt for safekeeping. Cost them a pound each for the trip.
Damn, why did I have to know that ...... now the sovereign discovery almost sounds plausible.
PCGS, NGC or whoever else has graded the coin, your best bet is to always inspect and grade the coin yourself, the number on a holder is just a number, you must be happy with the grading yourself.
Ok I got a bit confused before. Ive just looked dover my old email communications with shanew from CCF and it is definitely Shane Williams. Same bloke no doubt.
I have met him at a downies auction. Not the most recent but the one prior. A very strange fella that I recognised after overhearing him talking to a group of collectors about how the forums are crap and full of people who know nothing.
He bought a whole lot of crap and gloated about it. He was pulling other error coins out of his pocket and showing them to me. An impressive collection no doubt but he was happy to gloat about how much he paid, wayyyyyy too much.
He also took great delight in telling me that he had found no less than 3 2008 double obverse $1 and a double reverse 10c. He is obviously full of sh!t No one can 'find' what he has. Its all lies that fall apart with slight investigation.
Anyway the story ends with me being 95% sure he stole my new magnifying glass on the second day of the auction.
He is a total w#%$^r!!!! if you feel like spamming him his email is shanenmelissa@bigpond.com
Quote from: 'markn' pid='23274' dateline='1375091684'OK so let's add a pre-decimal printing plate found in a garage sale. A pre-decimal printing printing plate found on eBay. And don't forget the solid gold dollar coin one of his sons found in coins they withdrew from the bank. This guy is about the luckiest man alive.
Perhaps I am coming off bitter and twisted but in all my years I've never known someone to have so much "luck".:kez_11:
Don't forget he found a brand new magnifying glass at a Downies auction too!
Oh crap I just looked at ebay. He purchased 4 coins from me last month. No doubt they will pop up in APCGS slabs soon enough.
Lol walter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:i_agree: that was pretty quick Walter.
Fair dinkum ....... I thought Shane was just an error fanatic who had access to plenty of funds.
I still don't reckon he's the same fella as APCGS. Wauchope is so far away from Stanthorpe. Wauchope too is not sheep country which is what I thought Shane was, a sheep farmer.
(Am I still too gullible?)
The Investego ebay account has been active since 2007, which seems much older than Shane's activity and whilst I hate to say it, their spelling and grammar seems an improvement on Shane's also.
Since I'm close to Port Macquarie (and Wauchope) I'm now intrigued and might do some enquiries when I go to town next. The coin shop in Port flogs APCGS stuff from memory of some other threads so I might start there.
Geez, if it's all been a load of bollocks, I'll have to take my hat off to you :hi:....... especially Robster and Mark.
Man, I need a new magnifying glass... reckon I should go to the next Downies auction and see if I can find one? :angel:
Sounds like a plan Fulvio ....... they reckon if you dazzle the youngins with some flash bling or drown them in BS you can get em easy!
We shall name you "Special Investigator Det. Sgt. Sherlock Von Unicornus and will on receipt of information reimburse the cost of one (only) pie for your lunch.!! :idea:
Shanew is shane williams. Shane williams is apcgs. That is for sure.
Well i thought we had established all this about Shane W some time ago,but then i saw some things said that confused me a little.
I googled PCCB slabs & found this http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-HIGH-CLEAR-COIN-SNABS-slabs-PCCB-30-Different-sizes-for-choice-30pcs-lot/906317_729559426.html if you click on history for the last 6 months (7 ) ShaneW is their main buyer.
He actually sent me a private message through CCF the other day,asking me if i know where he can sell RAF Military items,other than status international, WT ????
Yeh i think i confused people an myself before. Im sorry i dont know what i was thinking.
Quote from: 'accumulator' pid='23316' dateline='1375146222'Well i thought we had established all this about Shane W some time ago,but then i saw some things said that confused me a little.
I googled PCCB slabs & found this http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-HIGH-CLEAR-COIN-SNABS-slabs-PCCB-30-Different-sizes-for-choice-30pcs-lot/906317_729559426.html if you click on history for the last 6 months (7 ) ShaneW is their main buyer.
He actually sent me a private message through CCF the other day,asking me if i know where he can sell RAF Military items,other than status international, WT ????
Interesting to note that he's bought 540 of these holders from this site so he's obviously been busy churning out these slabbed coins
Quote from: 'Robster' pid='23306' dateline='1375137579'We shall name you "Special Investigator Det. Sgt. Sherlock Von Unicornus and will on receipt of information reimburse the cost of one (only) pie for your lunch.!! :idea:
Why did I start visualising this when I read your post Robster .....
People of Jewusalem!
Wome is your fwiend.
To pwove our fwiendship, it is customawy at this time to welease a wongdoer fwom our pwisons. Whom would you have me welease?
Welease Woger!
Yes! Welease Woger! Welease Woger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7_oNBT9wsc
I've been thinking about AJPGS, just waiting on trout to send me some old slabs :mocking:
when I hear things like what you wrote uni I think of this..it cracks me up :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd3KB5Z39vo
Lol AJ ..... That Elmer Fudd one is brilliant ...!!!!
Your welcome mate, glad ya liked it ;) and I love python and have a heap of their stuff and other odds and ends I'll see if I can find the tins..be back soon I hope, unless I get lost :mocking:
:mocking: here ya go
(http://i39.tinypic.com/15zqbnm.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/29w6c0m.jpg)
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='23304' dateline='1375114556'Man, I need a new magnifying glass... reckon I should go to the next Downies auction and see if I can find one? :angel:
they have free pens tooo
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='23318' dateline='1375146939'Quote from: 'accumulator' pid='23316' dateline='1375146222'Well i thought we had established all this about Shane W some time ago,but then i saw some things said that confused me a little.
I googled PCCB slabs & found this http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-HIGH-CLEAR-COIN-SNABS-slabs-PCCB-30-Different-sizes-for-choice-30pcs-lot/906317_729559426.html if you click on history for the last 6 months (7 ) ShaneW is their main buyer.
He actually sent me a private message through CCF the other day,asking me if i know where he can sell RAF Military items,other than status international, WT ????
Interesting to note that he's bought 540 of these holders from this site so he's obviously been busy churning out these slabbed coins
Words "PCCB" on the boxes.
Thanks for the :spamguy: AJ!
Added: How long ago did they come out AJ?
Lol Robbiegal ....... just read it too , funny words them.
QuoteNo any stickers on the boxes
QuoteInteresting to note that he's bought 540 of these holders from this site so he's obviously been busy churning out these slabbed coins
That is a huge amount of basement slabs on the small Aussie market
Pending the material being used on these being confirmed as mylar, these 'flips' from the same mob PCCB look ok. You could print stickers off to make the label look more professional.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/exquisite-cardboard-coin-holder-flips-50pcs-box-12box-lot-wholesale-retail-Free-Shipping/550254447.html
be about 10 years ago uni :)
So cool AJ. Pythonism would have to be one of my favourite types of humour. (Noooo, fair dinkum, we'd never have guessed).
DITTO :i_agree: there's just something about old pommy humor that I find so much more appealing than others of today..we were good but the potty humor or where people get hurt seems to be the go these day and I so wish they'd change back :(
benny hill, goodies, etc etc..I'm a sick puppy :)
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='23317' dateline='1375146548'Yeh i think i confused people an myself before. Im sorry i dont know what i was thinking.
I know one thing Enworb and that is my thoughts of him started to lessen when you mentioned
QuoteA very strange fella that I recognised after overhearing him talking to a group of collectors about how the forums are crap and full of people who know nothing.
.
Prior to that I was quite happy to see him showing off his coins as they were something that I would never have gotten to see otherwise.
Robster: Von Unicornus vill succeed! (Like a toothless parrot).
Yes AJ, that lineup is in my alley. Dave Allen, Sid James, Hancock's Half Hour, love them all.
QuoteMr Lucky has found a gold sovereign in an old pilots cap.
........... contact .......... :crazy_pilot:
(sorry ...... was bored)
Quote from: 'markn' pid='23280' dateline='1375093237'Oh geez it just gets better. I haven't looked at CCF for a while but I just ducked over there and found this.
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=154374
Mr Lucky has found a gold sovereign in an old pilots cap. Honestly, you couldn't make these stories up......
I thought I'd test this story and employed the assistance of our beloved friend Quang whom I asked to obtain me one pilots cap.
Here are the results of his Endeavours:
On finding pirates cap I immedi8ly notice round shinny thing. (see pricher).
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/pir02.jpg)
I then weach in using pair of faucets.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/pir01.jpg)
Excuse faucets, maybe I will use hook next time.
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/pir03.jpg)
Result, shinny coin ....... you wippa!!!
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11067/pir04.jpg)
So who here thinks stories like these are just such a load of old hat?
You are indeed a man of great skill in the detection area of life as well as a constant source of amusement for Mrs. Robster on her arrival home each night. You also have way too much time on your hands (and hooks) and for this I am grateful. :wavemulticolor:
Your a trick :laugh2: if you say it's true it must be uni..I trust ya mate :winkextra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql3-6Rzfplk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8xqxFfyWd4