So here's something to discuss. Last night at coin club someone made a very interesting point about how the style and quality of coins that a civilisation produces can correlate quite closely with the state of that civilisation at the that time.
For example, in the supposed Greek classical period of 500-400BC Greek civilisation was at it's peak and the coins made during this period are considered to be among the most beautiful ever made. Just 100 or 200 years later the quality of the coins had lowered considerably and the Greek civilisation was in decline. Similar comparisons can be drawn with Roman coinage made from 100BC to 100AD being beautiful and distinctive when the empire was stomping it's way across Europe. However, just 200 years later when the barbarians were burning down the empire the coinage had gone to pot.
So let's look at Australia. In 1927 we made coins that look like this:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/australia-1927-2s-parliament-2.jpg)
And here we are in 2013 and we make coins that look like this:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/2013-weddell-seal.jpg)
So the question is: What do the coins that the RAM (and PM) make for collectors say about us as a country?
There is absolutely NO comparison between a Canberra florin and a pad printed 25mm dollar coin.
The Canberra florin IMHO is by far the best looking Australian predecimal coin, The seal coin is just another "grannybait" that is produced because the mint "Just knows" that us collectors have to have it to make a series of coins complete.
On the other hand the Canberra florin was produced to commemorate an important part of Australian history and was a well executed design ( Unlike the Melbourne coin) Yuk.
Is the Weddell Seal not an important Polar Animal in the food chain to be deserving of a commemorative *cough* ?? coin design. Surely Mr Weddell was an Aussie *cough* ?? NOT.
I guess it's almost as bad as a coral island in the Pacific issuing commemoratives for significant Australian events.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='21989' dateline='1374212860'Is the Weddell Seal not an important Polar Animal in the food chain to be deserving of a commemorative *cough* ?? coin design. Surely Mr Weddell was an Aussie *cough* ?? NOT.
I guess it's almost as bad as a coral island in the Pacific issuing commemoratives for significant Australian events.
I totally :i_agree: PP
But as a collector the mint has me by the "Short and curlies", If they produce a 25mm dollar coin I WILL add it to my collection :blush:
did you know that the clam shell on the florin symbolises religion/church
and I suppose that the ice bergs symbolise - well, ice and global warming and how the little fellas' are threatened etc
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='21991' dateline='1374213646'did you know that the clam shell on the florin symbolises religion/church
and I suppose that the ice bergs symbolise - well, ice and global warming and how the little fellas' are threatened etc
I think the clamshell comes from a Botticelli painting and the ice is just something the eskimo's keep the meat in :diablo:
That is a great comparison. Made me laugh at how rediculous some coins have become. But then again it's capitalism/commercialism that drives the creation of stupid coins, it's not art or creativity or passion. And capitalism depends on money...
I thought the Franklin Mint specialised in the granny bait.
Pity the RAM doesn't leave them to it and concentrate on excellence instead.
Or you could look at it this way...
(http://imageshack.us/a/img41/5936/6e71.jpg)
Zoo Token
(http://imageshack.us/a/img708/4673/grmw.jpg)
Work of Art
Point taken. Some nice designs still appear. Pity they don't try harder with circulation issues too.
As long as we keep buying trash at ever-increasing prices, they'll keep milking us. The only way to express displeasure is to stop playing the game. Once the sales fall, they might just reconsider their path.
Yeah, I know... I'm dreaming... :P
Quote from: 'dreamcatcher' pid='21995' dateline='1374214540'That is a great comparison. ........ it's not art or creativity ...
Those coloured coins are not art they are a coin sized computer graphic. But I need them to keep my dollar collection complete.
On the other hand Wojciech's Kangaroo at Sunset and many of his other designs are sculptured coin engravers masterpieces worthy of my collection.
NCLT issues are produced with one goal in mind - to make profit.
You could argue that some have artistic merit etc.
But the general blurb that these coins are great collectables is false in my opinion.
There are exceptions but most are only worth the intrinsic value when the time comes to sell.
The people who produce this rubbish are in it for the money and don't understand what real coin collecting is all about.
I believe that numismatics is about people and history not the actual coins.
Certainly not bells and whistles.
I consider these "coins" an insult.
Is Australia and Western civilisation in decline ?
Yes.
Are these crappy coins a symptom of this decline ?
I'd say its more about greed.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='22002' dateline='1374217627'Point taken. Some nice designs still appear. Pity they don't try harder with circulation issues too.
Nah that would make it too easy for you mob living under the bridge's :angel:
OK, now this is a subject that really yanks my chain, and one that I think anyone who is involved with coins for any degree of time considers at one stage or another. I've had conversations with staff at both of our coin issuing authorities about just this, and unfortunately it often falls on deaf ears. Not always, but often.
The staff at both mints have targets they need to meet, just as the rest of us do in our working lives. Sales = an ongoing job. The lowest (?) common denominator, or put more politely, accessible designs are a low risk way of selling coins.
It's unfortunate that our designers aren't given the opportunity to run with a vanity project every now and then, one that challenges conventions or their own design abilities. Read the story about the 1907 high relief $20 for an idea of how someone in minting authority rebelled against the standard, a now timeless design. Anyone want to run for the President of Australia?
The fact that this question has been posed answers itself I think - despite the fact we have coins with colour / holograms or even with lights in their freaking boxes (that one really flipped me, I thought it was cool just for the audacity of it), I agree many of the ideas behind our current NCLT coins are stale. Not because they aren't innovative, but because they seem to be devoid of risk.
I nominate the 2008 (?) UK series of circulating coin designs as my favourite designs in the past few years, anything in high relief by the Perth Mint, and a few others. I like the idea of hobo nickels as a way of reclaiming the artistry of circulating coinage - some of them need to be seen to be believed.
You only need to flick through a Krause 1901~ catalogue to see what other countries are up to, it's a shame that innovation in design is disregarded as a path to commercial success by our issuing authorities at the moment, but there you have it.
Which current designs do y'all like?
Quote from: 'acrellin' pid='22069' dateline='1374241669'OK, now this is a subject that really yanks my chain, and one that I think anyone who is involved with coins for any degree of time considers at one stage or another. I've had conversations with staff at both of our coin issuing authorities about just this, and unfortunately it often falls on deaf ears. Not always, but often.
The staff at both mints have targets they need to meet, just as the rest of us do in our working lives. Sales = an ongoing job. The lowest (?) common denominator, or put more politely, accessible designs are a low risk way of selling coins.
It's unfortunate that our designers aren't given the opportunity to run with a vanity project every now and then, one that challenges conventions or their own design abilities. Read the story about the 1907 high relief $20 for an idea of how someone in minting authority rebelled against the standard, a now timeless design. Anyone want to run for the President of Australia?
The fact that this question has been posed answers itself I think - despite the fact we have coins with colour / holograms or even with lights in their freaking boxes (that one really flipped me, I thought it was cool just for the audacity of it), I agree many of the ideas behind our current NCLT coins are stale. Not because they aren't innovative, but because they seem to be devoid of risk.
I nominate the 2008 (?) UK series of circulating coin designs as my favourite designs in the past few years, anything in high relief by the Perth Mint, and a few others. I like the idea of hobo nickels as a way of reclaiming the artistry of circulating coinage - some of them need to be seen to be believed.
You only need to flick through a Krause 1901~ catalogue to see what other countries are up to, it's a shame that innovation in design is disregarded as a path to commercial success by our issuing authorities at the moment, but there you have it.
Which current designs do y'all like?
The Holy dollar $1 design with the small head obverse with denticals dose it for Me :good:
Looks and feels like a real coin :ok:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the design on this latest silver proof NCLT (Grannybait)coin :ok:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/korea~0.jpg)
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10019/korea1.jpg)
Quote from: 'echidna' pid='22026' dateline='1374227742'Are these crappy coins a symptom of this decline ?
I'd say its more about greed.
I agree, it's more the theme than the design that shifts these coins.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='22086' dateline='1374277917'There is absolutely nothing wrong with the design on this latest silver proof NCLT (Grannybait)coin :ok:
Absolutely not, it's quite a nice design.
I think that majority of the circulating/non-circulating coin but circulating denomination designs are decent.
I think that granny bait is a terrible term for these coins
As if grannies are dumb
I'm a grannie
and i'm no dummy (well, most of the time ha ha)
QuoteI think that granny bait is a terrible term for these coins
I much prefer it than "Poppybait" :diablo::laugh2:
And I have to confess that I have Most of the silver "grannybait" coin sets in my collection :ok:
Anyway I just love the heft and feel of large silver coins especially the $5 Silver coins :dance2:
you are one of the worst ones here for grannie bait coins mate!
i'm a bit worried about you
do you hang around the ladies lounge at the local with a large PP album tucked under your coat?
gets the old girls in every time? ha ha
Quoteyou are one of the worst ones here for grannie bait coins mate!
i'm a bit worried about you
do you hang around the ladies lounge at the local with a large PP album tucked under your coat?
gets the old girls in every time? ha ha
Crikey RG You don't have to tell everyone my smooth moves at the pub :yahoo::laugh2:
Seriously tho, I can't help myself sometimes when I see a silver set that I don't have I will normally buy the damned things :dash1:
Nevermind those nice blokes will be here soon to sort out these loose straps on my "Special" Jacket :angel:
ha ha
I was hoping that you'd get a laugh!
haha :) you peeps are great
Wow complaints about bubblegum coins that far back.
This was before 3 sets of Alphabet dollars, coins for Bluey, The Wiggles, Mr Squiggle and other infantile programmes. Also not forgetting the endless "footy" issues and cars on coins along with silver locket coins with mini opals. Glow in the dark Chinese Horoscope year coins, 1 kg gold coins and endless coloured bubblegum coins of all stamps. 2013 was almost a paradise next to today.
I used to collect all the one ounce silver roo coins even with the selective gold plating as they were nice to look at until the the Rolf Harris child like offering and no longer do. I was collecting the silver proof sets up until they started messing around with the box shape. I had a full set of proof and unc decimal coins from proof sets etc in Dansco Supreme albums until they started milking the collector even harder and sold them in about 2010. I now stick to the pre-decimals and their error/varieties as they are a finite group and there is much to learn about them. Personally I find the modern coins amateurish as compared to what we had for the last hundred or so years, but that is just me.
And let's not kid ourselves, painted/printed coins look like arse.
The mint wouldn't dare show a photo of a genuine coin. Just their 3D renders.
Honestly I am amazed when one of the "printed" coins gets graded at MS68.
Grannybait actually means that its material marketed at senior citizens with spare money who want to buy something they think will be valuable and help future generations. Nothing sinister.
Its the companies that market it, who usually lie on the advertising material, talking limited numbers of items, quality of artistry, bespoke nature and how the item is a heirloom that will gain value. Often these are exaggerations and outright lies as 99% has no secondary market. Because they advertise them on daytime tv, infomercials and put them in brochures often stuffed into magazines liked by elderly people, they call it granny bait.
The worst granny bait coins I have seen are the Tristan da Cunha "Crowns" issued by Bradford Mint a notorious granny bait seller of overpriced chintzy junk like vases with smurfs on them and Thomas Kinkaid type junk, all sold at like $400 and called unique and rare, but actually mass produced in China. They heavily market WW2 memorabilia like old aircrafts a clock and a statue that had a soldier under a base with 5 superworn WW1 pennies in that were like 10c each but $500 plus $100 postage and papackaging.
Anyway they sold several series of TDC crowns with WW1 and WW2 themes and also QE2 tatt and these gold plated copper or aluminium coins cost $90 each plus $10 postage and handling per coin, Bradford had a special start deal of $10 for the first one and it was a complete rip off, they stuffed the glossy ads into every sunday paper and magazine aimed at old people like "Thats Life" "Our friend" etc and the ads showed the coins with the 1980s sparkle on them and the word "GOLD" in gold coloured block letters. In reality it was gold film on a coin with a face value of 25 pence (54 cents) and TDC uses British pounds, so these coins were not legal tender and basically souvenir exonumia.
I haven't seen them for 3 years advertised, but if you go to markets you see the darn things there on sale at stalls, usually for less than $90 each. The fact old people pay $100 for something that is worth maybe $1 or $5 on a good day - is sickening and even worse when they try to sell it or leave it to a grandchild who tries to sell it and realises they are worth close to nothing. Many old people have cabinets full of worthless 1970s and 1980s tschotshes and dust collecting junk like chintzy vases, dated 70s statues of kids holding globes etc.
Mnay American and British TV shopping networks and mints like Pojoby, Westminister, London etc not official mints sell overpriced coins that are worth a fraction of the gold they claim and stories of gold coins being like 10% gold or 14 carat or less and weighing 1 gram but costing $1000 each etc. In America some companies sell full sets of common coins that are way overpriced or sentimental sets like a series of "Titanic coins" that have a worn penny and nickel, and then charge $30 for it. One cse involved a set of 40 Morgan dollars,all common dates cost like US $150 per coin and every single one was superworn and/or cleaned and worth melt only, yet prices were 3 - 6x melt.