So, I'm working through this heap of copper I got from the bank the other day...
Thus far, about 2 bags in...
1966 Perth no SD,
1966 Perth Thin SD x2,
1968 x3
1981 Small Obv Filled R,
1981 Small Obv Frill Cuds,
1983 UNC/aUNC x 6
But, these 1981's are driving me nuts...
I've got about 1/3 Small Obv, which should be Canberra. Perth should be Large Obv, and Wales medium. I also have all three rim shapes.
But...
There appears to be no difference in the toes. I believe this may be due to dies being worn by 1981, and the difference being miniscule. There also seems to be no pattern to the rims vs Obv sizes, which makes no sense at all to me.
So, my question is, has anyone got definitive answers to the whole issue of positively identifying the mints in 1981? I do have Ian's research notes, but they are from many many years ago, and contain contradictions and speculation. I hope you guys can do better. :)
I'd really like to get this sorted, because I've barely scratched the surface of this pile of coins, and I can see myself with many many piles of the little buggers, and going (not so) quietly insane. :dodgy:
Sorry, I've got nothing (though I think I read somewhere that the Perth blunted toe couldn't be relied on for post-1966 coins).
I haven't read anything about the three different obverse sizes though. Got any more information on that?
I am sure that Canberra and Perth are indistinguishable for 1981. Only the Wales has the different obverse.
That is the only difference I have seen for that year having searched through thousands of 2¢ coins.
Jeff
How did you manage to get 1 and 2c pieces from the bank? I woulda thought any the banks had woulda been melted years ago.
Quote from: 'lacey' pid='21464' dateline='1373782569'How did you manage to get 1 and 2c pieces from the bank? I woulda thought any the banks had woulda been melted years ago.
People are still cashing them in 20+ years later, and the banks can only send them for destruction once they have $25 worth.
Try your local if you're interested, you never know your luck.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='21465' dateline='1373782856'Quote from: 'lacey' pid='21464' dateline='1373782569'How did you manage to get 1 and 2c pieces from the bank? I woulda thought any the banks had woulda been melted years ago.
People are still cashing them in 20+ years later, and the banks can only send them for destruction once they have $25 worth.
Try your local if you're interested, you never know your luck.
I might just do that thanks
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='21465' dateline='1373782856'Quote from: 'lacey' pid='21464' dateline='1373782569'How did you manage to get 1 and 2c pieces from the bank? I woulda thought any the banks had woulda been melted years ago.
People are still cashing them in 20+ years later, and the banks can only send them for destruction once they have $25 worth.
Try your local if you're interested, you never know your luck.
I have tried that in Geraldton and all I have ever got is a "Who is this Weirdo " look :laugh2:
QuoteI have tried that in Geraldton and all I have ever got is a "Who is this Weirdo " look
Maybe you should get a haircut, new shirt and polish your shoes! That will make your unusual request seem less weird.
Nothing personal; just wanted to get in before AJ.
Jeff
Quote from: 'lacey' pid='21475' dateline='1373783622'I might just do that thanks
I've tried it once and I scored about $7 worth of copper, and I think there was a 1968 2c in the bunch too.
They ripped me off with some Kiwi copper though! Not really, I was happy to have the Kiwi stuff too.
Quote from: 'JeffH' pid='21486' dateline='1373788320'QuoteI have tried that in Geraldton and all I have ever got is a "Who is this Weirdo " look
Maybe you should get a haircut, new shirt and polish your shoes! That will make your unusual request seem less weird.
Nothing personal; just wanted to get in before AJ.
Jeff
Or could it have been the sarong I was wearing and the bong I was carrying that turned them off :laugh2::dance2:
I get about $20 a week by asking at various banks. The 2c are always pretty interesting with plenty of keepers usually.
This lot came from a couple of banks, and is a little over $30 worth. So far, a couple of Kiwis, and maybe a dozen roadkill, which I'm going to use for some mad scientist experimentation I think. Might need to confer with the Trout Mint on that one... :angel:
I can see there being a few nice keepers for sure, and if all else fails, I have a couple of nasty bank tellers in mind I can go dump $24.99 onto. :diablo:
You might be right about not being able to tell them apart though. Apparently it can be done, but its not easy, and may just be too much trouble. Sort of like separating obverse sizes on 1999/2001 $1. I may just end up bagging them and procrastinating until I buy my scanning electron microscope, then go back to them. :)
Hi Guys.
An interesting subject the 1981 minted 2c coins.
After a lot of time looking at Uncirculated 2c coins, I gave up trying to differenciate between the Canberra and Wales minted coins. I couldn't find any common link to each mint.
Different rim sizes -
I have found these throughout the 2c coins and even different denominations. 100's of working dies are used, and if memory serves me correctly, the rim is the last part to be machined onto the die before they are polished. So, the different size rims could be attributed to the dies.
The softness/hardness of the metal used maybe a factor too, the annealing process can cause slight differences in the hardness. The harder the metal the less flow you will get. A softer planchet, the metal flow will fill all the recesses of the die including the rim, than a harder one. A slightly rounded rim (suggesting a harder planchet) generally looks thinner than square rim (a softer planchet).
The Minting Press pressure, should be taken into consideration. The 2c Master dies where sent to Perth from Canberra in the early 70's for the 1973 to 1983 coins (I understand that the Canberra Mint were not happy with a sample of the coins). No doubt the Perth mint tried the recommended pressure, was it used? It is generally acknowledge that the Perth minted circulation coins where not struck up as sharp as the Canberra minted ones.
Another factor, the hubbing of the dies from Master to Working. Nearly all working dies will be different, albeit VERY slight to MAYBE just noticable. This can effect the effigy, legend, rim and designers initials (SD).
I've only touched on the rims so far, the shorter claw I'll get back too you. In my research I did use Unc coins, anything less than gEF you will find it difficult.
A couple to look out for, if you are not aware them
1973 & 1974 blunt claw. Same as 66, 67 & 68.
1975 long and short 7.
All from the Perth mint.
Cheers
Nice information cobwebs. How do you know the 1975 varieties are both from Perth?
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='21700' dateline='1373967755'Nice information cobwebs. How do you know the 1975 varieties are both from Perth?
Both came from Reserve Bank rolls and they don't have a sharp claw. The Canberra mint only used there own RAM paper, if any bulk coins were sent out, they went to the commercial banks where they used there banks' paper.
Some great info there Ian, especially since its applicable to all coins, not just these. Oh, and welcome back. :)
Quote from: 'Cobwebs' pid='21704' dateline='1373968612'Both came from Reserve Bank rolls and they don't have a sharp claw. The Canberra mint only used there own RAM paper, if any bulk coins were sent out, they went to the commercial banks where they used there banks' paper.
Ah, of course.
Thanks; all very interesting.
Quote from: 'Cobwebs' pid='21704' dateline='1373968612'Both came from Reserve Bank rolls and they don't have a sharp claw. The Canberra mint only used there own RAM paper, if any bulk coins were sent out, they went to the commercial banks where they used there banks' paper.
Oh, and are the Canberra coins long or short 7?
Canberra long (normal length), Perth short and long.
Cheers
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='21390' dateline='1373755054'So, I'm working through this heap of copper I got from the bank the other day...
Thus far, about 2 bags in...
1966 Perth no SD,
1966 Perth Thin SD x2,
1968 x3
1981 Small Obv Filled R,
1981 Small Obv Frill Cuds,
1983 UNC/aUNC x 6
But, these 1981's are driving me nuts...
I've got about 1/3 Small Obv, which should be Canberra. Perth should be Large Obv, and Wales medium. I also have all three rim shapes.
But...
There appears to be no difference in the toes. I believe this may be due to dies being worn by 1981, and the difference being miniscule. There also seems to be no pattern to the rims vs Obv sizes, which makes no sense at all to me.
So, my question is, has anyone got definitive answers to the whole issue of positively identifying the mints in 1981? I do have Ian's research notes, but they are from many many years ago, and contain contradictions and speculation. I hope you guys can do better. :)
I'd really like to get this sorted, because I've barely scratched the surface of this pile of coins, and I can see myself with many many piles of the little buggers, and going (not so) quietly insane. :dodgy:
Fulvio, something else I found in my notes/article or defunct website.
Obverse fishtailing
Separating the coins 1973 to 1983 with flat based and curved based letters, you will find that the flat based letters have the sharp Canberra claw, the curved based letters have the short claw. I must stress at this point that the curved based lettering on coins should be used as an aid to identification.
Quote from: 'Cobwebs' pid='22328' dateline='1374394422'Obverse fishtailing
Thanks for that Ian. Too ill to do anything about it right now, but I've made a note for next week hopefully.
Get well soon Fulvio! :lazy2:
The men in black from the RBA didn't pay you a visit did they? :mafia: :big_boss:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='22359' dateline='1374401446'The men in black from the RBA didn't pay you a visit did they? :mafia: :big_boss:
LOL! No.. it was my dear old dad, bringing home the dreaded lurgy for me. He even hid the meds I bought him just as soon as he got better. :dodgy:
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='21390' dateline='1373755054'So, my question is, has anyone got definitive answers to the whole issue of positively identifying the mints in 1981? I do have Ian's research notes, but they are from many many years ago, and contain contradictions and speculation. I hope you guys can do better. :)
Where are these notes?
And did you ever end up resolving this?
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='67396' dateline='1424519456'Where are these notes?
And did you ever end up resolving this?
He had a website up with quite a lot of useful material. Now defunct, but you can find it on the ol' Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ihartshorn
No, with all the medical dramas I ended up just bagging all the copper up and putting it aside. Haven't managed to overcome my inertia yet to get back into it. :(
Ah bugger. I've got a few put aside somewhere and was hoping for a resolution.
I found an old article for the 5c pieces and the 10c pieces so I might deal with them first.