Australian-Coins Forum

G & C coins at Maitland has shut. This makes Newcastle  Coins the only shop between Sydney and Port Macquarie.

I blame ebay
I think it is killing it for a heck of a lot of coin and stamp dealers

Ebay is having a huge impact not only on retailers but also on charity stores. People are reducing the amount they give to Vinnes, Salvos or St Pauls and instead selling their items on Ebay.

Find a way to live with Ebay is a challenge for all areas of society.

Quote from: 'coxspau' pid='20845' dateline='1373368997'Find a way to live with Ebay is a challenge for all areas of society.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. I for one would really, really really like to see a viable alternative, because I don't like or trust ebay, and I don't like the flow-on effects they're having in all sorts of ways. :(

ACA on nine had story on tonight about ebay most successful aussie member making 40 million a year.
I DO NOT LIKE ebay either fulvio with their immunity from law well that's what it seems to us

what a load of bullocks
40 million
and it's ACA to boot
how many shysters do they profile and two years later they are interviewing the broken people who lost their livelihoods to the thieves donning themselves as millionaires

Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='20839' dateline='1373363642'I blame ebay
I think it is killing it for a heck of a lot of coin and stamp dealers

A lot of dealers blame eBay but they really only have themselves to blame for failing to adapt to a changing market. They can't blame another business because they're unable to compete.

I find it difficult to think how a bricks and mortar business can compete in an environment where some coins are sold at many multiples their release price on the internet by scalpers (Black Caviar coins??) , but older coins are viewed as 'bullion' with no collectible value at all.

Do Perth Mint / RAM stuff buy stock back if you can't sell your allocation ? Or are you basically stuck with it.

There are Many Bricks and Mortar dealers that have a presence on eBay.

There are two problems with eBay that are causing dealers to go broke. The first is the hobby dealer that only trades on eBay. They set up a RAM or Perth Mint account. They sell below RRP to the point where they only make a few dollars a coin. They don't care because they are only funding a hobby and not feeding a family out of it. The second problem is the sellers that sell of their collection or part if their collection. They are in affect having an online garage sale. They are not selling to dealers that traditionally earn a living from buying and reselling this sort of material.

The more of the above that goes on the less coin dealers there will be. The less dealers there are the less interest there will be in the hobby which can only be bad news for everyone.

Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='20934' dateline='1373456236'The more of the above that goes on the less coin dealers there will be. The less dealers there are the less interest there will be in the hobby which can only be bad news for everyone.

Agreed, but a lot of dealers are their own worst enemies. Say I have an item that's worth ten bucks I need to sell. I can buy them for that, and I can sell them for that on ebay, less fees. I go to a dealer, and they either aren't interested, or offer $2 for it. To then resell at $10.

Now, in the old days, if I needed the money I was screwed. I'd have to take the offer, because I had no chance of selling it any other way. Now, I throw it on ebay and get what its worth, or maybe even more. So next time I don't even bother with the dealer.

Yes, he's got a family to feed. Yes, wholesale and retail are two different things. But now that there are options, a lot of these guys need to wise up to pay the rent.

As a buyer on the other hand, I look for intangibles. I can buy trinkets anywhere. I can buy run of the mill stuff easily as well. And if I want top shelf, I won't be looking in a shop, but at an auction. However what I can't get online or at the post office is knowledge and service and those little special items that make your eyes light up, though they may not be considered investments. And do I get that sort of service? Sadly, no. Walk into the average dealer and you are at best treated as a nuisance and a distraction. They're always so terribly busy... doing what I don't know, because there are seldom any actual customers to be seen. Maybe doing the crossword out the back? Still, if I'm made to feel unwelcome, well, its been nice knowing you, and I'll be sure to tell my friends.

Retailing is about relationships. Good dealers know that. They know it costs ten times more to get a new customer than to keep an existing one happy. If I tell you I'm into cuds and cracks, and tomorrow someone walks in with a bunch to sell, buy them, and pay the guy a fair price. You kill two birds with one stone, right? But no, I've actually followed people out of a shop to buy what they were trying to sell but the guy behind the counter didn't want to know about.

Maybe these guys are all burned out or something, but from where I stand, the majority have no passion, and its all just a chore to them.

I buy about 75% of my coins and supplies from Dealers "Online" simply because I have built a relationship with them and can trust and enjoy the transaction, I also get what I pay for without any stuff ups.
The nearest coin dealers to me are in Perth (a 5 hr drive) and I am only in Perth to either catch a plane or am travelling through for work.

I HAVE to get my stuff on-line and I do prefer to get it from a B+M Dealer :ok:
In my opinion the net opens more doors than it closes for a B+M operator that is willing to either sell via eBay or operate his/her own website, The customer base is expanded way above just the "walk in" customer.
I have a Mate that took a bunch of round 50 cent coins to a dealer in Perth and was only offered face value for them :dash1:
I told him to sell them via eBay and he averaged about $12 each for them :ok:
I think its all about moving with the times or get left behind for B+M dealers.
Every collector wants to be able to buy or sell coins at a fair market price and like it or not eBay offers a better alternative than most established shops when it comes time to sell coins.

first thing to do these days is to put up something you  want to sell or get rid of , then offer it as a swap , tell the people what you want and most times you will get a reply of some sort , look at it , then make up  your mind , yes or no . no problems  .
 even start on this forum ,  you may even get a sale or swap ,..
  the best thing is no cost or fees just postage ..  you wont get abused and the folks on here will tell you if your trade is to much or to little and you can both make an adjustment to the trade ..
   give it a try .and good luck ..     ,, kel ,,

B&M dealers need to adapt to survive.  It doesn't matter if they are trying to feed their families or not.  The world is moving on and if they do not move too then their businesses are doomed.  

Competing with Online Sellers

Why shouldn't online sellers undercut b&m dealers for mint product?  If they do not have the overheads of a b&m dealer then their costs are lower and they can and should charge lower.  Why should people buy mint product from a b&m dealer if their prices are higher?  Is their mint product somehow different or better?  No, of course not.

Buying Cheap and Selling High

Sites like eBay have inevitably lead to more empowerment of the general public when it comes to selling their own collections.  We've all heard horror stories of b&m dealers offering a pittance for collections and then selling them for a huge profit.  But those sorts of dealers are the exception rather than the norm.  Most good b&m dealers work on thin margins for things like bullion that they buy in and then sell quickly.  Also, most collections that appear over the counter are rubbish.  Regardless, good or bad, dealers are going to see less material come into their shops.  No amount of bleating is going to change that.  Again, the world has changed.

What Should B&M Dealers do?

Change their thinking.  If they don't then they'll end up just like farriers, typewriter repair shops, and people who sold tape decks.  Obsolete and out of business.  So, how they could move on and cope with the changes?  Here's what I think:

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• There's no reason to buy mint product from a dealer when it can be bought cheaper online.  So make people WANT to come into your shop.  Build a relationship with your customers.  Ask their names, understand what they collect and what amount of money they can spend.  Be friendly.  Make it easy for them to look around and have your stock well organised.  Make coming into your shop an experience rather than just a way for customers to give you money for each and every RAM release.  
  
• Get smart.  The days of being able to buy collections super low and make a huge markup are dying.  And margins will consequently dry up too.  Going forward I believe the coin business will inevitably become more of a margin game rather than being one of the "big score".  So look at how you're doing business and do it smarter so you can cope with thinner margins.  Hold less stock and increase inventory turns.  Look at your costs and reduce where possible.  Market yourself better locally and nationally.  Look at what stock lines perform well and which ones don't and ditch the dogs.  Go do some reading about how businesses with thin margins (like supermarkets) survive and see what you can learn.
• Get online.  If you're a b&m seller and you're not selling heavily online then IMHO you're in big trouble.  There's no point sticking your head in the sand and pretending things are not changing.  Get a website.  Sell on eBay.  Do a little blogging.  But above all be active online.  And realise that selling on eBay is hard work.  Margins are thin, packaging is time consuming, and eBay buyers can be a pain.  But it's a way of increasing sales to offset a drop in store sales.
• Be willing to make changes.  There's been a number of changes in the coin market in the last few years.  The two biggest (IMHO) have been the rise of purely online sellers and the effect that PCGS has had in the pre-decimal market.  A number of dealers have done nothing but whine and complain about both and do their level best to keep things the same.  Other dealers have waited and watched, accepted that things are changing and decided to make changes to adapt.  They've built their online business and gotten into the PCGS market.  And why not, there's money to be made in both areas.  I leave it to you to decide which type of dealer is likely to be around in 10 years and which isn't.
  

Online sales and marketing have enabled me to work for myself and PPH to build our coin business.  So there are opportunities to be had online and it should be seen and an opportunity for b&m stores rather than a threat.  I believe there's always going to be a place for b&m stores but they need to adapt to move forward.  I, for one, love going into the coin shops and I want them to survive.

Great summary Markn, fully agree (I also love the feeling of walking around a physical coin shop and hope like hell they don't all disappear.)

Quote from: 'Robster' pid='20977' dateline='1373496873'Great summary Markn, fully agree (I also love the feeling of walking around a physical coin shop and hope like hell they don't all disappear.)

I have never had the pleasure of being in a coin shop so it is a moot point for me :ok:

Ebay,rightly or wrongly and for the better or for the worse,has set the market price for Coins & Stamps,very hard for a B&M dealer to get items at a bargain price.It takes a coin/stamp illiterate 5 mins. on the Internet to value an item these days so no amount of bullsheeting from a dealer can change that.I think in Oz. we will see the same trend as in the States where Pawn shops,Book/Comic dealers etc will take over the space as dedicated Stamp/Coin B&M stores close.

Quote from: 'Basil' pid='20988' dateline='1373498854'I think in Oz. we will see the same trend as in the States where Pawn shops,Book/Comic dealers etc will take over the space as dedicated Stamp/Coin B&M stores close.

If the dealers had any sense, they'd go the other way and diversify into more lines. There are lots and lots of collectibles out there. You only need to watch A&E channel for a couple of hours to see the wealth of auction/picking/buying/selling/pawning going on out there. As with anything, knowledge is king, and people with a clue can make an absolute mint.

I know some shops dabble in a few sidelines, but they tend to be things of interest to the proprietor. What's needed is more of a businesslike approach. Identify what the customers are into, and stock that. And if its not your thing, do some study or find an expert you can tap for guidance.

And yeah, I know I'm dreaming. I can't even find a shop that comprehends errors. :(