Australian-Coins Forum

Numismatic Discussion => Coin Chit Chat => Topic started by: bellyflorin on July 09, 2013, 04:18:56 PM

Title: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: bellyflorin on July 09, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
:dodgy: i had a feeling  they wouldn't last , to good to be true 14% per year returns . http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/rare-coin-company-placed-into-liquidation-owing-millions/4809054
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: JeffH on July 09, 2013, 05:40:20 PM
If you are a millionaire and want to buy coins as an investment you go to one of the established firms or appoint an agent to buy for you.
If you are an enthusiastic collector then you seek out your own coins and quick profit is not your principal motivation.

Another start-up company preying on people's savings and superannuation funds. What's the bet that the people running it were paying themselves fat salaries and didn't lose a cent?

You have to feel sorry for the punters (for that is what they were) but, before investing large amounts of money it is prudent to carefully check out the offer.
An old and trite saying, but still true; "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." And, was there an element of greed from the investors who expected unrealistically high returns?

Jeff
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 09, 2013, 05:47:22 PM
yes, I heard the rumours early this year
seems that my source is quite reliable

I think they had been around for a fair while though
http://www.rarecoin.com.au/
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: markn on July 09, 2013, 07:07:25 PM
Rare Coin Company are neither a startup nor are their owners new to the industry.  According to Rob Jackman's LinkedIn page he's been in the game since 1982 (http://au.linkedin.com/pub/robert-jackman/28/1/507).  Second major Australian dealer to go belly up in a year.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: coxspau on July 09, 2013, 08:45:34 PM
Markn, who was the first major Australian dealer to go bust?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: purplepennyhunter on July 09, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
Did they forget to take their website down?

The book every dealer is selling for $40. (http://www.johnpettit.com/banknotes-on-offer/books-magazines/australian-istory-through-banknotes-dauer-pettit)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 09, 2013, 09:53:21 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='20846' dateline='1373369024'Did they forget to take their website down?

I don't get it.. what am I missing?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: runway on July 09, 2013, 10:05:41 PM
Greg MCDonald?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 09, 2013, 10:06:32 PM
no not macdonald
John Pettit Banknotes - they have been made insolvent as well
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: runway on July 09, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Really? That's sad for those who will lose their money specifically super investers
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 09, 2013, 10:16:04 PM
the investment business is always risky I suppose

anyways, I guess you just have to be careful and do your homework with any higher end investment

not that I have any investments except what my superannuation does with my hard earnt money, so I don't really know what i'm talking about here
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: jozk123 on July 09, 2013, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='20846' dateline='1373369024'Did they forget to take their website down?

The book every dealer is selling for $40. (http://www.johnpettit.com/banknotes-on-offer/books-magazines/australian-istory-through-banknotes-dauer-pettit)

Which dealers have it for $40i would love to get one at that price.

Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='20846' dateline='1373369024'Did they forget to take their website down?

The book every dealer is selling for $40. (http://www.johnpettit.com/banknotes-on-offer/books-magazines/australian-istory-through-banknotes-dauer-pettit)

Which sydney dealers have it for $40i would love to get one at that price.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: interest on July 09, 2013, 11:06:21 PM
They have been around for a lot of years, I have bought several items off them over the years nothing really high end
just a few notes & things.
Used to look forwards to their monthly dogalogue.
Shame to see them go belly up.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: ausjack on July 10, 2013, 05:13:27 AM
:laugh2: when you lose you health and wealth and everything else come talk to me, what a pathetic joke..bet they still have a home car etc etc etc..I'll swap just about anyone with my life for theirs..what no takers :(

GET A LIFE as they haven't lost much only a few dollars

why is it that if a business goes belly up it's the end of the world but if something happens and someone loses everything in accidents etc it's no biggie and tough titties for them. I reckon if a business goes belly up let it sink as it will just cost more and more for something that's not worth it, eg aussie cars..or should I say yank that the idiots here think are still aussie but haven't been for a very long time :)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: keldaw on July 10, 2013, 09:36:25 AM
good on ya  A J ,
super is a thing forced on all of us by the fed gov ,during our working life
 if you are under retirement age when you stop working  for any reason , medicial reasons or any other then it must be left in a super fund and then that fund invest it for you , in different ways like shares, bonds ,real estate, . etc etc .  believe me ,it happened to me,.  I lost  $ 47000.00 , in less then 4 years . so I decided to except my losses and draw the rest out and they had the cheek to charge me another $ 2000.00 early withdrawal penalty ,. so with what I got back I took my wife children and grand children to Fiji for a holiday .I am now left with just 2 small supers ,  1 in my name with amp
$ 15000.00 and 1 in dawn,s name with first state $ 11000.00 ...
last year  I rang amp and asked for the papers for me to claim my super and it took over 3 weeks to get the papers sent to me and back to them and in that time I got back $ 10280.00 instead of $ 15000.as promised . same with dawn,s and she got back $ 7000.00 back instead of the $ 11000.00 . she was promised .. all I have left now is some shares with wesfarmers value ,2 weeks ago at $ 21000.00 today,s value $ 18604.36 ..I am not trying to winge about it , I am just trying to show people who are thinking about retiring to be very careful .. always ask your adviser what is the tax free amount you can get on your super if you retire early , because if you don't ask them , they wont tell you , when I retired it was the first $ 10500. 00 was tax free then the rest was taxed at  15% but remember I have been retired over 12 years now so it may have changed a little bit by now ..I am just saying be very careful with your super investments.
 why am I putting all this on here it is because it is a discussion on companys going broke , and I would dearly like to see my lot go under.      ,, kel ,,
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: lacey on July 10, 2013, 12:53:14 PM
kel if you are on a pension and still have some super left, have it changed over to a pension and then you will still get Govt pension without penalty.  If you get your super changed to a pension, you can nominate how much you get each month (I think it's from 4% up 10%), depending on how much you have in there.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: accumulator on July 10, 2013, 01:09:30 PM
The thing that worries me about a big concern going under is, is it the whole industry thats not as strong at the moment ?  or is it bad management ?
Like, surely if they've been operating for 30 years & a fair bit in the high end of the market then they really should have a pretty good grip on things,so what happened ?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Goldseeker on July 10, 2013, 01:14:23 PM
Greedy managers getting whopping great pay rises at the expense of the investor/little man, meaning you and me.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: markn on July 10, 2013, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: 'accumulator' pid='20886' dateline='1373427570'The thing that worries me about a big concern going under is, is it the whole industry thats not as strong at the moment ?  or is it bad management ?
Like, surely if they've been operating for 30 years & a fair bit in the high end of the market then they really should have a pretty good grip on things,so what happened ?

Who can say.  But if you read the articles relating to both Rare Coin Company and John Petit Banknotes there's one common factor that stands out.  They both offered guaranteed buy backs and rates of return on coin/banknote purchases.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: keldaw on July 10, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
sure lacey , that sounds good but as I said , I have drawn it all out of super and we went on a big holiday with my whole family to Fiji ,
 that was so good and even to see the grand kids enjoy the plane ride over there was so good , the rest was put into terms deposit at 4 %
 not much I know but  at least I know what I will get back in 12 months , but with super you don't have a clue .. and my super earnt me nill some years and I lost some of my capital , but with term deposit my capital is guaranteed .. much much better ,,. kel ,,
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 10, 2013, 05:03:58 PM
There's a common misconception about business, businessmen and failures. Although there are certainly plenty of shonks, you simply can't generalise and tar everyone with the same brush. No more than you can any other group. There are, for example, honest politicians, hard-working public servants, dedicated unionists, and upstanding citizens who ride motorcycles.

Without going into too much detail, I lost a million dollars when certain St George bank employees got personal and pulled the rug out from under me two weeks before things were going to be resolved. They took my money, everything I owned, they stole property which did not belong to me, they very nearly put my parents in the street, and they caused a string of ongoing health, relationship and personal problems that continue to haunt people 15 years later.

Yet a lot of uninformed people viewed me along the lines of what AJ posted. Which of course added to the fallout.

Unless you know the details of what happened intimately, you really can't judge. There may have been a bank like mine involved. There may have been a crooked employee embezzling. There may have been a poorly timed investment. Or improperly thought-out guarantees. Or any of a thousand other factors which you don't know about. Which even the principals involved may not know about. I certainly didn't find out I had an employee with her hand in the till until it was far too late to do anything about it. Perhaps if I'd known, I'd still be in business. I don't know. And if I don't know, what hope does anyone else who wasn't involved have?

I don't have any great love for dealers, especially at the top end of town. I'm unlikely to support them. But I appreciate that they provide a service, and that they have a right to be in business. When they fail, for whatever reason, I think its bad for everyone, and I feel for any victims or innocent bystanders. But I don't think anyone can judge them on hearsay or prejudices.

Take note, learn, and move on. Then perhaps next time things will go differently. Look at our recently reincarnated fearless leader for example, who actually now has a very good chance of winning an unwinnable election. If he can learn, so can anyone else.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: keldaw on July 10, 2013, 05:04:21 PM
when I retired 12 years ago , if I had taken my super out , I would get the first $ 105000 .00 tax free and only payed 15% on the rest , but they don't tell you things like that , they want you to invest the lot with them so they get their cut out of it too .
 I would now be  $ 49000.00 better off if they had have told me that ..

 always remember , you only get one try at it , stuff up and it,s gone you are then to old to try again .. so you don't have much of an option
 to chose from . I hope this is of some help to somebody on this forum or to some of their families . if you have a family or friend and they have super invested  , just ask them how much they put in and ring the company now and find out what it is worth now .. they will tell you it is a long time investment , but when you retire at 60 - 65  how much time do you have left ..      ,, kel ,,
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 10, 2013, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: 'keldaw' pid='20916' dateline='1373441661'...they will tell you it is a long time investment...

What super really is is a way to fund a massive population bubble without bankrupting the country. That's all it is. Anything else is incidental, and details have and will change over time.

Without super, there is no way we can raise enough taxes to pay everyone a pension they can actually eat on. Even now, a pension will not allow you to put a roof over your head, or do much of anything else. There are too many old people and not enough young ones. We just live too long.

Is super a good investment? Was it ever? Will it be? Dunno, crystal ball is still on the fritz. But it is a way to shift the massive costs onto other shoulders than the government's. And for most people its effective. You can take it as a pension, add a full or part government pension, and live in some semblance of comfort, maybe.

What you can't do is fund a trip to Vegas, and expect to live like Kim Kardashian on it. But that's not what its for. You're not supposed to take lump sums out of it, and there are deliberate penalties to discourage that.

Personally, I decided decades ago that super was not for me. I still have some, if the management fees haven't devoured it all yet. But I'd rather noodle for my super, and I think in the long run I'll come out ahead. We'll see. And if I got it wrong, well, its nobody's fault but mine, eh? :)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Coins from Vending on July 10, 2013, 06:11:18 PM
if you guys are working and over age 55 I strongly suggest you look at whats called transition to retirement, basically you salary sacrifice as much as you can upto the total super contribution of 35K so if you employer pays 10K you can salary sacrifice 25K into super.

You take all your super from your current fund put it into a fund that allows a draw down each week which takes the place of you salary sacrifice, so you still have the same amount of money coming in each week.

The salary sacrifice component only attracts 15% contributions tax as apposed to your higher tax bracket, this will see you about 6K a year better off due to paying less tax.

I've helped many ppl set this up through suncorp
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 11, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
Fools and their money are easily parted.
I have no idea why this particular company went toes up but I would hazard to guess that the main players didn't loose their shirts like the investors :ok:
This sort of thing happens all the time where an investment company comes up with a "sure fire" winner, inevitably the punters loose their shirts and the bookie drives home in his Roller:angel:

Like it has been said before ;
If it looks like BS
If it smells like BS
If it feels like BS
There is a bloody good chance it IS BS
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Nevol on July 11, 2013, 09:42:27 AM
When I retired in 2006 I took my entire Super benefit in a cash settlement.
I didn't have a lot to invest as I was only in the workforce for 16 years.

I have some invested so If I lose anything, it's my own fault. No bugger was going to get the opportunity to rip me off. I have 100% control over all my money matters.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: enworb on July 11, 2013, 10:10:05 AM
"Who can say. But if you read the articles relating to both Rare Coin Company and John Petit Banknotes there's one common factor that stands out. They both offered guaranteed buy backs and rates of return on coin/banknote purchases."

I agree. What has got both into trouble is making promises which cant be kept. Its almost impossible to guarantee a certain rate of return and its bound to fail eventually IMO. I bet the major auction houses are rubbing their hands together now that theyll be having many more top end items coming through their doors for sale.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: markn on July 11, 2013, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='21001' dateline='1373503205'"Who can say. But if you read the articles relating to both Rare Coin Company and John Petit Banknotes there's one common factor that stands out. They both offered guaranteed buy backs and rates of return on coin/banknote purchases."

I agree. What has got both into trouble is making promises which cant be kept. Its almost impossible to guarantee a certain rate of return and its bound to fail eventually IMO. I bet the major auction houses are rubbing their hands together now that theyll be having many more top end items coming through their doors for sale.

I think if you guarantee a buy back at a certain rate of return then you're really just borrowing money from your coin/banknote customers.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: enworb on July 11, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
Thats exactly right mark. Its a crooked system.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: markn on July 11, 2013, 12:08:56 PM
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='21008' dateline='1373509922'Thats exactly right mark. Its a crooked system.

If you read the report on John Petit's failure you'll note that profits had been overstated.  I wonder if it went something like this:

Buy Rare Banknote for: $100,000
Sell Rare Banknote for: $500,000
Profit: $400,000*

*Don't mention that now there's a $600,000 liability that has to be paid in 2 years time.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: wwwww on July 11, 2013, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: 'markn' pid='21005' dateline='1373505224'
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='21001' dateline='1373503205'"Who can say. But if you read the articles relating to both Rare Coin Company and John Petit Banknotes there's one common factor that stands out. They both offered guaranteed buy backs and rates of return on coin/banknote purchases."

I agree. What has got both into trouble is making promises which cant be kept. Its almost impossible to guarantee a certain rate of return and its bound to fail eventually IMO. I bet the major auction houses are rubbing their hands together now that theyll be having many more top end items coming through their doors for sale.

I think if you guarantee a buy back at a certain rate of return then you're really just borrowing money from your coin/banknote customers.

and using the money 'borrowed' from new clients to pay the return to previous clients or clients who pull out. Sound familiar?

I think their failure has very little to do with numismatics.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: coxspau on July 11, 2013, 04:01:15 PM
Being only 38 and still paying into a super fund, all this talk is incredibly depressing. Coupled with the fact that the govt is likely to continue to raise the retirement age, I don't see any chance of accessing my super any time before I'm 70....and that's assuming there is any super to access.

Regarding the recent closures, agreed at that guaranteed buy backs and secured rates of return sounds like a naive understanding of the market by both the company and those invested within the company.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Sapyx on July 11, 2013, 04:19:33 PM
It's not just the specific victims that will be hurting. This sort of thing tends to leave a contagious stain on the whole industry. If the only time coin dealers make the news is when they go bust or get caught ripping people off, who's going to trust them, either buying or selling?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 11, 2013, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='21020' dateline='1373525373'It's not just the specific victims that will be hurting. This sort of thing tends to leave a contagious stain on the whole industry. If the only time coin dealers make the news is when they go bust or get caught ripping people off, who's going to trust them, either buying or selling?

I am pretty sure this mob weren't coin dealers as such.
No coin dealer worth his/her salt would make such outrageous claims like this mob :ok:
I presume that this mob were something like the alpaca and ostrich promoters , NO REAL knowledge but with a canny ability to be able to make greedy or stupid people part with their cash in a "Get Rich Quick" scheme .

I do agree that when it hit the fan with this mob a lot of honest hard working coin dealers copped some of it for no reason whatsoever.
Pretty much the same as a few crooked eBayers  screw it up for the majority of honest sellers.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 11, 2013, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='21001' dateline='1373503205'"Who can say. But if you read the articles relating to both Rare Coin Company and John Petit Banknotes there's one common factor that stands out. They both offered guaranteed buy backs and rates of return on coin/banknote purchases."

I agree. What has got both into trouble is making promises which cant be kept. Its almost impossible to guarantee a certain rate of return and its bound to fail eventually IMO. I bet the major auction houses are rubbing their hands together now that theyll be having many more top end items coming through their doors for sale.
i'd bet cha that there won't be any coins and I am guessing that they haven't been there all along
I am guessing it was a business that did not sit on an equity foundation but rather on hyped up values and perhaps somewhat falsified values of items that most likely had not been paid for or even in the vault
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 11, 2013, 06:10:06 PM
Got told today a Melbourne dealer just fell over as well. I can't recall the name though... had a few distractions afterwards and it slipped off the top of my mind into some dank recess under the couch. :(
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 11, 2013, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: 'trout' pid='21027' dateline='1373526604'
Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='21020' dateline='1373525373'It's not just the specific victims that will be hurting. This sort of thing tends to leave a contagious stain on the whole industry. If the only time coin dealers make the news is when they go bust or get caught ripping people off, who's going to trust them, either buying or selling?

I am pretty sure this mob weren't coin dealers as such.
No coin dealer worth his/her salt would make such outrageous claims like this mob :ok:
I presume that this mob were something like the alpaca and ostrich promoters , NO REAL knowledge but with a canny ability to be able to make greedy or stupid people part with their cash in a "Get Rich Quick" scheme .

I do agree that when it hit the fan with this mob a lot of honest hard working coin dealers copped some of it for no reason whatsoever.
Pretty much the same as a few crooked eBayers  screw it up for the majority of honest sellers.

they were authorised coin dealers on the RAM website

Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='21036' dateline='1373532006'Got told today a Melbourne dealer just fell over as well. I can't recall the name though... had a few distractions afterwards and it slipped off the top of my mind into some dank recess under the couch. :(

wonder who that is?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 11, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='21037' dateline='1373532058'wonder who that is?

How many dealers are in the city? A quick check of websites might be revealing. Or I can blast off an email I guess..
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 11, 2013, 06:32:08 PM
businesses go bust all the time
and they cleverly re-appear under a different trading name

there have been heaps of dealership/trading houses disappear

monoterium (? spelt wrong?) being one major one
Sherwood
probably more that I can't name
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 11, 2013, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='21046' dateline='1373533328'monoterium (? spelt wrong?) being one major one
Sherwood

True, though usually its more or less above board.

Didn't Monetarium become the Rare Coin Company?
And Sherwood folded into Downies?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: markn on July 11, 2013, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='21048' dateline='1373533648'Didn't Monetarium become the Rare Coin Company?
And Sherwood folded into Downies?

Yes to both of those.  The ex owner of Sherwood is still trading.  I think Sherwood did not go bust.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 11, 2013, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: 'markn' pid='21049' dateline='1373534434'Yes to both of those.  The ex owner of Sherwood is still trading.  I think Sherwood did not go bust.

Thanks. I didn't think I'd gone senile just yet. ;)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 11, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
change
it's always happening
but I do believe that a lot of these coin traders do get their feet into some very hot water at times
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Mister T on July 11, 2013, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: 'jozk123' pid='20865' dateline='1373375647'Which sydney dealers have it for $40i would love to get one at that price.

Check ebay. I just saw three sellers with it listed for $39.95
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: runway on July 11, 2013, 09:49:16 PM
Coinworks Belinda Downie ? This high flyer would be struggling for business now is this the next Melbourne business to go bust ?
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 11, 2013, 10:20:19 PM
surely not!?!
if Downies go under the the coin world is in trouble!
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Goldseeker on July 11, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Belinda is not part of Downies.   Belinda is Coinworks.   I can't Coinworks going under with the coins that she is offering for sale.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 11, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='21074' dateline='1373547871'Belinda is not part of Downies.   Belinda is Coinworks.   I can't Coinworks going under with the coins that she is offering for sale.

Why is that?
Because they have high value items for auction or because they ripped a seller off and can make a quick buck on the deal, Or they are selling just to get out of the firestorm created by the rare coins debacle:angel:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: enworb on July 11, 2013, 11:32:56 PM
WWWW: "and using the money 'borrowed' from new clients to pay the return to previous clients or clients who pull out. Sound familiar?

I think their failure has very little to do with numismatics. "

1. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme

2. I agree, failure has little to do with the state of numismatics and more to do with terrible/fraudulent business.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 12, 2013, 11:10:28 AM
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='21074' dateline='1373547871'Belinda is not part of Downies.   Belinda is Coinworks.   I can't Coinworks going under with the coins that she is offering for sale.

thanks Goldie
I recall there was a Downies connection through marriage albeit dissolved now
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Robster on July 12, 2013, 11:26:27 AM
Can you picture it- "one for you, two for me, one for you, two for me.!!:diablo:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: dreamcatcher on July 12, 2013, 05:44:40 PM
It's a shame when these poorly managed schemes rob people of their money. I wonder how the assets of the owners and managed will be treated or if they can be reached.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 12, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: 'dreamcatcher' pid='21155' dateline='1373616880'It's a shame when these poorly managed schemes rob people of their money. I wonder how the assets of the owners and managed will be treated or if they can be reached.

Spain seems to welcome these ratbags :angel:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Unicorn on July 12, 2013, 05:48:54 PM
Oddly Trout, Christopher Skase came to mind ..... just wiki'd him and it was almost 12 years ago he passed on. Geez time gets away.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 12, 2013, 05:52:54 PM
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='21159' dateline='1373617134'Oddly Trout, Christopher Skase came to mind ..... just wiki'd him and it was almost 12 years ago he passed on. Geez time gets away.

Only 12 years ago, that oxygen mask kept him going for a hell of a long time then:angel:
Or was it the money he ripped off that kept him going:dodgy:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 12, 2013, 08:12:00 PM
http://www.brw.com.au/p/business/surry_hills_super_bargains_lisa_sEAr6r7suAURQGTj2ioJoN

Lisa Ho has gone into liquidation
Fashion brand Lisa Ho has officially entered liquidation after the 30-year-old business collapsed with debts of almost $20 million two months ago.

However the designer has bought the majority of the brand's intellectual property for an undisclosed amount, allowing Ho to potentially continue the brand in future.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 12, 2013, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='21197' dateline='1373625720'http://www.brw.com.au/p/business/surry_hills_super_bargains_lisa_sEAr6r7suAURQGTj2ioJoN

Lisa Ho has gone into liquidation
Fashion brand Lisa Ho has officially entered liquidation after the 30-year-old business collapsed with debts of almost $20 million two months ago.

However the designer has bought the majority of the brand's intellectual property for an undisclosed amount, allowing Ho to potentially continue the brand in future.

And the show goes on :dodgy:
It is about time The Aussie public starts to use their brains and stop supporting these simply stupid investments.
I thought we were the "Clever" Nation, Apparently not :dash1:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Ozcoins on July 12, 2013, 09:32:42 PM
Just have to comment on a couple of the things that have been said about "super".

It seems that some people think of super as somehow different to "MY money invested for MY future", when that is exactly what it is.

If you want it put into cash at the current rate, you can do that.
If you want it put into Aussie shares, you can do that.
If you want it put into something else, you can do that.

Its YOUR money make sure YOU are happy with what is being done with it.

The fact that it has to remain invested until certain things happen (like retirement, or hardship) and that there are other rules (like favourable tax benefits) does not change that its just money invested somewhere.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 12, 2013, 09:53:11 PM
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='21211' dateline='1373630562'Just have to comment on a couple of the things that have been said about "super".

It seems that some people think of super as somehow different to "MY money invested for MY future", when that is exactly what it is.

If you want it put into cash at the current rate, you can do that.
If you want it put into Aussie shares, you can do that.
If you want it put into something else, you can do that.

Its YOUR money make sure YOU are happy with what is being done with it.

The fact that it has to remain invested until certain things happen (like retirement, or hardship) and that there are other rules (like favourable tax benefits) does not change that its just money invested somewhere.

I think most people are talking about the compulsory super that the employer pays.
This was achieved by agreement between the unions and the employers at it's inception.
This was started at 5% and has gone up to 9% as of this post .
What most people are concerned about is where are all the funds invested and do they still exist.
We are talking about a huge amount of money here and we are working on a "Trust Me" basis:dodgy:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 12, 2013, 10:35:32 PM
Quote from: 'trout' pid='21215' dateline='1373631791'I think most people are talking about the compulsory super that the employer pays.
...
We are talking about a huge amount of money here and we are working on a "Trust Me" basis

Errr.. what?

You have a super fund. You put in money. Your employer puts in money. What the fund does with it is YOUR call. Where it came from, be it you, your employer, interest or whatever, is irrelevant. You don't like the portfolio, switch funds. Simple.

It seems people confuse potential dodginess by the employer, like when they fail to put the money in, with any shonkiness of the fund, which may overcharge, with the volatility of the market, which may evaporate your money faster than dry ice on a hot tin roof.

The three are totally separate things. The first is an offense, the second may or may not be illegal, and the third is just the luck of the draw. Ask anyone who got cleaned up by the GFC trainwreck. ;)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: runway on July 12, 2013, 10:59:35 PM
You are very intelligent Fulvio
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Fulvio on July 12, 2013, 11:17:54 PM
Quote from: 'runway' pid='21228' dateline='1373635775'You are very intelligent Fulvio

LOL! Many would argue that point, trust me. :dodgy:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: robbiegal on July 12, 2013, 11:22:54 PM
if you can't dazzle them with brilliance
well, do what I do

baffle them with bull

ha ha
and on that note, good  nite folks!
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: ausjack on July 13, 2013, 09:17:15 AM
That's one of the first thing they teach you in the defence force, BS baffles brains :)
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 13, 2013, 09:26:24 AM
With Superannuation I strongly suggest that everyone does a "Super Search" with the ATO and roll over all the different funds into just one fund.
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: ausjack on July 13, 2013, 09:48:58 AM
tried that and I don't exist and I have over a dozen supers :(
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: Chuckey on July 13, 2013, 01:04:21 PM
Hi all!
Hows this for a SUPER SCAM. I got a letter from my Super fund last week - Perpetual. let me quote:

"We wish to advise you that as your employer has elected Perpetual ___ ___ ___ as the default superannuation fund, you are entilted to have a minimum level of death and Total and Permanent Disablement Insurance.

This cover has been provided to you since you joined as a member of the Fund. However due to a system error, premiums for this cover have not been deducted, even though you have been continued to be covered for $75,000.

Our system will now reflect your correct level of cover which will be shown on future statements.

To bring your account up to date an outstanding insurance premium totaling $885.61 for the period 31 march 2010 to 30 june 2013, was deducted from your super account on the 15 June 2013. Please note you have not been disadvantaged by this issue and your account is now up to date.

We apologize for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused.

Keith McLachlan
General Manager, Service and Operations"
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: enworb on July 13, 2013, 02:23:26 PM
Oh thats crap. I be dirty if that happened to me!
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: purplepennyhunter on July 13, 2013, 03:19:39 PM
I bet that would have been a great excuse not to pay up had you needed to use that "cover".
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: trout on July 13, 2013, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: 'Chuckey' pid='21305' dateline='1373686461'Hi all!
Hows this for a SUPER SCAM. I got a letter from my Super fund last week - Perpetual. let me quote:

"We wish to advise you that as your employer has elected Perpetual ___ ___ ___ as the default superannuation fund, you are entilted to have a minimum level of death and Total and Permanent Disablement Insurance.

This cover has been provided to you since you joined as a member of the Fund. However due to a system error, premiums for this cover have not been deducted, even though you have been continued to be covered for $75,000.

Our system will now reflect your correct level of cover which will be shown on future statements.

To bring your account up to date an outstanding insurance premium totaling $885.61 for the period 31 march 2010 to 30 june 2013, was deducted from your super account on the 15 June 2013. Please note you have not been disadvantaged by this issue and your account is now up to date.

We apologize for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused.

Keith McLachlan
General Manager, Service and Operations"

:welcome: Chucky
I would tell these buggers to bash that where the sun doesn't shine and take your bat and ball and play on a different team :ok:
Title: RE: Rare Coin Company goes bust
Post by: kanjoe07 on July 19, 2013, 11:07:35 PM
I had no idea that RRC went bust until I read the full page article on page 9 of The West Australian today. Can't believe it...