The next Maccas book will not have Perth Mint issues in it. Apparently it will expand on pre federation issue to compensate.
I hope that means more detail in the pre-decimal and decimal sections too.
Also, where was this announced? I've seen it posted a few times but without any source.
This is good news as far as im concerned. I dont care for the Perth Mint products in general and hopefully this gives rise to a much more detailed predecimal and decimal section. I would really to see a section that expands prices on well known varieties, such as the Wavy 66 20c and incuse 2000 50c.
Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='1277' dateline='1349574672'I hope that means more detail in the pre-decimal and decimal sections too. Also, where was this announced? I've seen it posted a few times but without any source.
Greg McDonald posted the info on the now defunct ACBO Forum. (Australian Coins and Banknotes Online Forum).
Quite a lot of the members here were also members of ACBO, but it collapsed in late Aug, so we now have a wonderful new 'home' thanks to markn and purplepennyhunter.
There used to be a new thread started each year for people to advise Greg of any typos or errors in his guide, and I don't think there's anywhere else that Greg would now be able to get that type of feedback, so it's hoped that Greg will join us here soon, I know he's been sent at least 1 invitation, possibly more.
Maybe we need to convince Greg to join us here.
What do you think?
Quote from: 'humpybong' pid='1292' dateline='1349606971'Maybe we need to convince Greg to join us here.
What do you think?
No matter what people think I think it is a shame. Perth Mint is part of our coin history. Like it or not a lot of people buy Perth Mint products. How can you recommend a book that is not complete. Renniks will win out.
I just wish Greg luck in selling his next book!
Yeah but you cant blame him, have you tried to work with the Perth Mint, I have and let me tell you it is not easy, they make everything way more difficult then it has to be, unlike the Royal Australian Mint where they are more than happy to let you know mintages and product prices and release dates and everything.
I'll be buying his new book. I think most people who do already still will. I dont like Renniks books. Australian Coin, you arent the first person to tell me theyve had problems with the Perth Mint.
December 2011
McDonald's Guide (http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2011/12/a-new-issue-and-overhaul-of-the-pocket-guide-to-australian-coins-and-banknotes.html)
Does anyone know if Greg is going through with a complete overhaul of the book. I got the impression he said some of those things as he was unhappy with the Perth Mint but in reality it may not eventuate.
Greg has been invited to join us here but hasn't yet. I'm sure he will as it comes closer to the publishing deadline.
O goodie, then he can give us special discounts for coin friends on pre orders of the bookie
:give_heart:
QuoteI got the impression he said some of those things as he was unhappy with the Perth Mint but in reality it may not eventuate.
I got the impression he was upset with them because they'd cancelled a pretty big order and left him with quite a few catalogues that he didn't know what to do with. Perhaps things have simmered down since then. Given that the deadline for his material has always been November I'd imagine he'll be sniffing about fairly soon looking for corrections or new material.
I think Perth Mint just decided to longer stock the catalogue (current and future).
Quote from: 'Australian coin' pid='1300' dateline='1349656515'Yeah but you cant blame him, have you tried to work with the Perth Mint, I have and let me tell you it is not easy, they make everything way more difficult then it has to be, unlike the Royal Australian Mint where they are more than happy to let you know mintages and product prices and release dates and everything.
The Perth Mint are difficult to deal with...I can tell you that first hand. However Greg gets paid the big buck from everyone that buys his book....now an incomplete book. It might be a difficulty but I am sure it can be overcome.
Quote from: 'planchetflaw' pid='1344' dateline='1349752508'I think Perth Mint just decided to longer stock the catalogue (current and future).
Still no reason not to put a large portion of Australia's numismatic history into a book. Did not think it should be about tit for tat.
Has anyone heard anything more about this recently?
I received a circular today re the latest edition from a coin dealer at Albury. So one will have to keep ones eyes open for the release of the latest edition.
I was talking to my dealer, he told me that McDonald had agreed to make the prices more realistic to market value, anyone else heard this?
Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3030' dateline='1352713786'I was talking to my dealer, he told me that McDonald had agreed to make the prices more realistic to market value, anyone else heard this?
The "Blue book" is really good for pre Decimals values as it is upgraded all the time but unfortunately it dosn't have the coverage of Maccas.
IMHO Maccas and rennics are outdated/obsolete as they are printed as far as pricing goes.
They do both give collators an indication of the rarety/woth of coins but the market IS fluid and they should be simply used as a guide.
Maccas would be a better guide between that and rennics simply because maccas covers more coins.
SO get your act together Walter and get rid of the "Coming soon" logo on the decimal coins section on blue sheet :good:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3033' dateline='1352715452'Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3030' dateline='1352713786'I was talking to my dealer, he told me that McDonald had agreed to make the prices more realistic to market value, anyone else heard this?
The "Blue book" is really good for pre Decimals values as it is upgraded all the time but unfortunately it dosn't have the coverage of Maccas.
IMHO Maccas and rennics are outdated/obsolete as they are printed as far as pricing goes.
They do both give collators an indication of the rarety/woth of coins but the market IS fluid and they should be simply used as a guide.
Maccas would be a better guide between that and rennics simply because maccas covers more coins.
SO get your act together Walter and get rid of the "Coming soon" logo on the decimal coins section on blue sheet :good:
What "blue book" is this? never heard of it!
Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3035' dateline='1352716998'Quote from: 'trout' pid='3033' dateline='1352715452'Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3030' dateline='1352713786'I was talking to my dealer, he told me that McDonald had agreed to make the prices more realistic to market value, anyone else heard this?
The "Blue book" is really good for pre Decimals values as it is upgraded all the time but unfortunately it dosn't have the coverage of Maccas.
IMHO Maccas and rennics are outdated/obsolete as they are printed as far as pricing goes.
They do both give collators an indication of the rarety/woth of coins but the market IS fluid and they should be simply used as a guide.
Maccas would be a better guide between that and rennics simply because maccas covers more coins.
SO get your act together Walter and get rid of the "Coming soon" logo on the decimal coins section on blue sheet :good:
What "blue book" is this? never heard of it!
at times like this "Google" is your best freind :good:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3037' dateline='1352717434'Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3035' dateline='1352716998'Quote from: 'trout' pid='3033' dateline='1352715452'Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3030' dateline='1352713786'I was talking to my dealer, he told me that McDonald had agreed to make the prices more realistic to market value, anyone else heard this?
The "Blue book" is really good for pre Decimals values as it is upgraded all the time but unfortunately it dosn't have the coverage of Maccas.
IMHO Maccas and rennics are outdated/obsolete as they are printed as far as pricing goes.
They do both give collators an indication of the rarety/woth of coins but the market IS fluid and they should be simply used as a guide.
Maccas would be a better guide between that and rennics simply because maccas covers more coins.
SO get your act together Walter and get rid of the "Coming soon" logo on the decimal coins section on blue sheet :good:
What "blue book" is this? never heard of it!
at times like this "Google" is your best freind :good:
Will do :)
I find maccas quite good and will buy the next addition. I have found that in grades up to aUNC most dealers charge 50-75% of catalogue value. In higher grades prices seems to get closer to those in the book.
Got my retail flyer from greg today. Looks like a backflip on Perth Mint issues. Book now $39.95.
Will be interesting to see wholesale info when received.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='3057' dateline='1352773306'Got my retail flyer from greg today. Looks like a backflip on Perth Mint issues. Book now $39.95.
Will be interesting to see wholesale info when received.
hello - so is the new maccas going to be complete with the perth mint issues?
i had heard that he was going to do it year about due to the reatail not changing much or something
I noticed too a post about Walters 'blue book' - is that the electronic blue sheet? I thought that you had to subscribe to that and then it is all electronic? Am I right on that one? ta from rob
Yes it is the electronic blue sheet, it is free but only for 1 grade, if you want to know the value if a coin in all different grades you must subscribe
Is the 19th edition his new book?
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3446' dateline='1353279727'Is the 19th edition his new book?
No, the new one will be the 20th Edition. :angel:
[attachment=443]
Hay do you already have one, where did you get it from?
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='3447' dateline='1353280878'Quote from: 'trout' pid='3446' dateline='1353279727'Is the 19th edition his new book?
No, the new one will be the 20th Edition. :angel:
Bugger, i just forked out $32.50 for LAST years book :dash1:
Oh trout that sucks, would you be able to return it by any chance? I will get this years book.
Quote from: 'AaronG' pid='3458' dateline='1353288907'Oh trout that sucks, would you be able to return it by any chance? I will get this years book.
It's OK.
My fault, Not the sellers
Is there even a big difference between 1 edition?
Usually no but for this issue there are supposed to be big changes. Greg is supposed to have ditched Perth Mint issues. I'm in the dark though and Greg hasn't joined up here although he's been invited.
Quote from: 'Australian coin' pid='3448' dateline='1353281542'Hay do you already have one, where did you get it from?
No, that is part of an image on a 'flyer' I got from Greg. I usually get my annual Book from VP Coins, as they're not far from where I live.
"From the flyer" Virtually every one of the 4000 plus illustrations have been digitally re-mastered to at least double their sharpness.
In this edition we've added 100 extra pages.
Including....
A complete redesign and update on all the issues from the RAM.
A complete revamp of all the Perth Mint issues including a more reader friendly and chronical listing of all their issues from 1986 to 2013.
A comprehensive revision of all prices for our traditional collecting series including - Proclamation Coins - Colonial gold issues - Commonwealth bronze & silver coins - Internment Camp Tokens - Kookaburra Trial Pieces - PNC's - Olympic Issues - Pre-decimal and Decimal banknotes - NPA issues and much more....
Proudly printed in Australia.
Soft bound $39.95
Hard bound $47.50
I cant wait to check it out. Sounds like some decent changes.
Remember last year after Perth Mint screwed him over, he said he was not going to include anything from the golden west?
Maybe they have come to some sort of arrangement, which I think is probably best for both parties.
http://www.downies.com/Accessories-and-Books/Book-Greg-McDonald-Guide-20th-Edition-Softcover/3653/productview.aspx
Available for purchase today.
$39.95
As eagerly anticipated as any annual coin issue in numismatics, the new fully updated and expanded full-colour 20th edition of the McDonald’s Guide to Australian Coins & Banknotes has just been launched!
(http://www.downies.com/ImageResize.ashx?path=uploadimage/product/2111201285243.jpg&height=500&width=500)
Quote from: 'Australian coin' pid='3995' dateline='1353993560'http://www.downies.com/Accessories-and-Books/Book-Greg-McDonald-Guide-20th-Edition-Softcover/3653/productview.aspx
Available for purchase today.
$39.95
As eagerly anticipated as any annual coin issue in numismatics, the new fully updated and expanded full-colour 20th edition of the McDonald’s Guide to Australian Coins & Banknotes has just been launched!
(http://www.downies.com/ImageResize.ashx?path=uploadimage/product/2111201285243.jpg&height=500&width=500)
I have the 2012 issue on my desk fresh from the post office :dash1:
I have just ordered the 2013 20th edition.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='3996' dateline='1353995180'Quote from: 'Australian coin' pid='3995' dateline='1353993560'http://www.downies.com/Accessories-and-Books/Book-Greg-McDonald-Guide-20th-Edition-Softcover/3653/productview.aspx
Available for purchase today.
$39.95
As eagerly anticipated as any annual coin issue in numismatics, the new fully updated and expanded full-colour 20th edition of the McDonald’s Guide to Australian Coins & Banknotes has just been launched!
(http://www.downies.com/ImageResize.ashx?path=uploadimage/product/2111201285243.jpg&height=500&width=500)
I have the 2012 issue on my desk fresh from the post office :dash1:
I have just ordered the 2013 20th edition.
http://www.jtsandc.com/
Now available from John Thomas Stamps & Coins $31.40 + $3.00 post :wavemulticolor:
No actually he is taking orders.
Quote2013 Australian Coins and Banknotes Catalogue now in Colour, 20th Edition, by Greg McDonald.
If you buy this Catalogue only (nothing else) then postage will be only $3-00.
Suggested retail price for this edition is $39-95, my price is $31-40.
Currently in stock - NIL. I am taking orders for these Catalogues now.
These Catalogues are due for release on the 15th December 2012.
http://www.jtsandc.com/prod85.htm
Cool price, but I asked my local book shop to get one for me.
Then they just phone you when they get it in.
Don’t know how they can post it for $3.
My post office always charges $6.60
For $3 it must be an envelope? With my mail service I don’t think it would get to me in one piece.
Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='4228' dateline='1354407667'No actually he is taking orders.
Quote2013 Australian Coins and Banknotes Catalogue now in Colour, 20th Edition, by Greg McDonald.
If you buy this Catalogue only (nothing else) then postage will be only $3-00.
Suggested retail price for this edition is $39-95, my price is $31-40.
Currently in stock - NIL. I am taking orders for these Catalogues now.
These Catalogues are due for release on the 15th December 2012.
Downies cannot guarantee delivery before Christmas. :whistle2:
Quote from: 'chookcity' pid='4230' dateline='1354408098'Downies cannot guarantee delivery before Christmas. :whistle2:
Well I guess the issue date is just 6 working days before Christmas.
You would think that Macca would do anything possible to get the book out in November. He seems to be robbing himself of Christmas sales by releasing it so late.
I'd suggest too it won't have the updated mintage to include those in the RAM 11-12 Annual Report.
Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='4233' dateline='1354408792'Quote from: 'chookcity' pid='4230' dateline='1354408098'Downies cannot guarantee delivery before Christmas. :whistle2:
Well I guess the issue date is just 6 working days before Christmas.
You would think that Macca would do anything possible to get the book out in November. He seems to be robbing himself of Christmas sales by releasing it so late.
We were told to pay before 26/11 for a first week in dec delivery. He does this every year and I always have a mad rush to get them all posted not to disappoint for Xmas. Assuming I get books by the Friday before Xmas I will have all my orders posted by the Friday before xmas
To post for $3 must be under 20mm including the envelope (largest letter under 500g-over that it's a parcel). My 2012 edition would do that.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='4273' dateline='1354441472'To post for $3 must be under 20mm including the envelope (largest letter under 500g-over that it's a parcel). My 2012 edition would do that.
Here's one with free registered post....
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200858774877&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123
And here's an even cheaper offer http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-2013-McDonald-Coin-and-Banknote-Catalogue-20th-Edition-/190763519772?pt=AU_CoinPublications&hash=item2c6a644f1c but only if you opt for regular post.
I bought last year's one from Johnny (plus some other catalogues and found his service good. I have never bid on any of his coins as, any that have looked interesting, I think overpriced.
Jeff
Will do for forum members only if you purchase more than $20 in coins from me I will do the Maccas book for $30.00 with no additional postage than what you would normally pay for your coin order.
Just mention your forum member ID when placing your order.
When do you expect to have it in stock Shane?
Well Greg said in his propaganda should be leaving printer 7/12. Based on past years I would take that with a grain of salt. I am hopeful to have it time to post out to make Xmas stockings.
Btw Kathryn... It is time I placed another order with you for albums and pages.
Got an email today from Greg......says books could be ready by end of next week.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4390' dateline='1354789175'Well Greg said in his propaganda should be leaving printer 7/12. Based on past years I would take that with a grain of salt. I am hopeful to have it time to post out to make Xmas stockings.
While I am sure that publishing a book is no easy feat you've really got to wonder about this. It always seems to be a last minute rush on his behalf to get the book out before Christmas. As far as I am aware there is no last minute information he's waiting on, it's not like he even includes the latest mintage figures from the last RAM report. So why not just put his target publishing date as the first week in November rather than the first week in December and save himself what seems (by his telling anyway) a major drama?
Email update today from Greg.......should be leaving the printer today.
maccas on my shelf
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4659' dateline='1355458972'maccas on my shelf
:yahoo:
Anybody received theirs in the mail yet?
Yep, got it. Bought mine from a Melb. dealer.
my last maccas postal order left yesterday. If I have an order before COB Thursday I will express so anywhere in Aussie Land should have it by Xmas day.
How much does express post cost mate?
Will do for $9.00
has anybody received their book via snail mail yet?
I saw them in the Jeweller come coin shop and resisted for now. So far I have heard of a lot of mistakes and overwrites of previous mistakes that were fixed and got un-fixed.
I am also very surprised Greg hasn't joined us here. Does he even have much contact with the real world? As far as I am concerned, the people here, the coin shops and the people at shows are the real coin world and that's what determines the prices.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='4845' dateline='1355992696'I am also very surprised Greg hasn't joined us here. Does he even have much contact with the real world? As far as I am concerned, the people here, the coin shops and the people at shows are the real coin world and that's what determines the prices.
I agree that the pricing of coins IS determined by the market and 99.99% of the values in maccas and renniks books are pretty fanciful.
However, it's the difference in the pricing of coins of the same type (eg florins) that make these publications a worthwhile addition to our reference library.
I am pretty certain that if we actually paid for our coins at the “book “price our collections would be a whole lot smaller than they are.
In reality 99.99% of my coins didn’t cost me what the “books†value them at and I am most certainly not under the false assumption that they will realise the “book†price if I ever had to liquidate my collections.
I would certainly welcome Gregg’s input into this forum. I would love to pick his brain and garner some of his insight and knowledge on coins and at the same time he could gain some invaluable information as to what the real market is paying for the coins in his publication from the members here that are actively in the market and buying coins on a regular basis.
I got my copy in the mail. If i had advice to offer it would be that if you already have the 2012 issue and you dont collect non government issued banknotes then dont bother. 64 of the new pages are for private bank notes issues. Slap a couple bucks on predecimal prices and dont bother changing the decimal prices much at all and youll have yourself a similar price to the new book.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='4866' dateline='1356042673'Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='4845' dateline='1355992696'I am also very surprised Greg hasn't joined us here. Does he even have much contact with the real world? As far as I am concerned, the people here, the coin shops and the people at shows are the real coin world and that's what determines the prices.
I agree that the pricing of coins IS determined by the market and 99.99% of the values in maccas and renniks books are pretty fanciful.
However, it's the difference in the pricing of coins of the same type (eg florins) that make these publications a worthwhile addition to our reference library.
I am pretty certain that if we actually paid for our coins at the “book “price our collections would be a whole lot smaller than they are.
In reality 99.99% of my coins didn’t cost me what the “books†value them at and I am most certainly not under the false assumption that they will realise the “book†price if I ever had to liquidate my collections.
I would certainly welcome Gregg’s input into this forum. I would love to pick his brain and garner some of his insight and knowledge on coins and at the same time he could gain some invaluable information as to what the real market is paying for the coins in his publication from the members here that are actively in the market and buying coins on a regular basis.
Hello. My understanding is that the general market values are drawn from auction house hammer prices with markets such as e-bay not really being factored into the prices? My dealer certainly uses auction prices for his valuation purposes. The PCGS market also throws a spanner in the works as a more common but rare in a particular PCGS grade and colour coin can command a very high price. If those prices were then included in general valuations, well, the domino effect would be extradordinary.
Quote from: 'interest' pid='4832' dateline='1355976282'has anybody received their book via snail mail yet?
Received today
Quote from: 'interest' pid='4964' dateline='1356327806'Quote from: 'interest' pid='4832' dateline='1355976282'has anybody received their book via snail mail yet?
Received today
Not yet, still waiting.
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='4953' dateline='1356313746'Quote from: 'trout' pid='4866' dateline='1356042673'Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='4845' dateline='1355992696'I am also very surprised Greg hasn't joined us here. Does he even have much contact with the real world? As far as I am concerned, the people here, the coin shops and the people at shows are the real coin world and that's what determines the prices.
I agree that the pricing of coins IS determined by the market and 99.99% of the values in maccas and renniks books are pretty fanciful.
However, it's the difference in the pricing of coins of the same type (eg florins) that make these publications a worthwhile addition to our reference library.
I am pretty certain that if we actually paid for our coins at the “book “price our collections would be a whole lot smaller than they are.
In reality 99.99% of my coins didn’t cost me what the “books†value them at and I am most certainly not under the false assumption that they will realise the “book†price if I ever had to liquidate my collections.
I would certainly welcome Gregg’s input into this forum. I would love to pick his brain and garner some of his insight and knowledge on coins and at the same time he could gain some invaluable information as to what the real market is paying for the coins in his publication from the members here that are actively in the market and buying coins on a regular basis.
Hello. My understanding is that the general market values are drawn from auction house hammer prices with markets such as e-bay not really being factored into the prices? My dealer certainly uses auction prices for his valuation purposes. The PCGS market also throws a spanner in the works as a more common but rare in a particular PCGS grade and colour coin can command a very high price. If those prices were then included in general valuations, well, the domino effect would be extradordinary.
You have to ignore pcgs sales as who can deprecate the coin value and the value of an American telling you what the grade of a coin is using a non australian standard. You also have to ignore eBay on quality items as nobody pays what it is worth because of the rip off factor that eBay chooses to ignore. You can only place confidence in real auctions. This means Greg may have a lot of high grade predecimals and sob closer to the mark but there is little change to the work of fiction with decimal nclt
My book arrived by mail today from Shane. :yahoo:
I've got my book and studied it.
For coin collectors nothing much has changed. All the values are pretty much the same, it still has a few typos, the 1977 10c mintage is still wrong and the "year of the family" wide date spiel is still wrong.
For banknote collectors however there have been major changes. Most obvious is the section devoted to private banknote issues. There is some interesting historical information here especially about the 1893 GFC (the more things change the more they stay the same) but only a tiny portion of the market would actually have any of these banknotes as the cheapest is still in the $10,000s.
The regular banknote prices have also been greatly reduced. The pre decimal, star notes and specimen notes have in some cases had many thousands of dollars removed from their book value. Regular decimal and polymer notes have mostly been unaffected by this pricing realignment.
Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='5026' dateline='1356478634'the "year of the family" wide date spiel is still wrong.
Do you know what is correct then, because I recall reading different things in different books and from circulation finds, neither the wide of narrow dates seem excessively rare.
Judging by the numbers of wide vs narrow that I used to find in circulation, the wide would only account for about 10% or less of the total minted, so logic would indicate the wide should be higher in price.
I don't know about the Sets and PNC issues though, never bought enough of them to make comparisons. :winkextra:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='4976' dateline='1356350924'My book arrived by mail today from Shane. :yahoo:
Glad it arrived safely. Thought it would have arrived before Xmas... Thought I express posted it.
Just noticed that on page 499 there is only the obverse of the fifty dollar note.
I have gone back through the last four books & it's the same in all books.
Funny how this has not been picked up before
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='5080' dateline='1356525238'Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='4976' dateline='1356350924'My book arrived by mail today from Shane. :yahoo:
Glad it arrived safely. Thought it would have arrived before Xmas... Thought I express posted it.
No worries, it's here, that's what counts. Large padded envelope, regular post, $6.60 in stamps. :grin:
Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='5048' dateline='1356497546'Judging by the numbers of wide vs narrow that I used to find in circulation, the wide would only account for about 10% or less of the total minted, so logic would indicate the wide should be higher in price.
Thanks Nevol, I thought that was the case.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4975' dateline='1356348826'You have to ignore pcgs sales as who can deprecate the coin value and the value of an American telling you what the grade of a coin is using a non australian standard.
Have you attended any recent major public auction? People don't pay based on the listed Australian standard grades, they pay based on what PCGS will grade them.
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='5359' dateline='1356785744'Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4975' dateline='1356348826'You have to ignore pcgs sales as who can deprecate the coin value and the value of an American telling you what the grade of a coin is using a non australian standard.
Have you attended any recent major public auction? People don't pay based on the listed Australian standard grades, they pay based on what PCGS will grade them.
That is right. You are paying a premium for an American telling you what the coin is graded at under the American system. Would be interesting to see if you could auction the same coin in the same auction both slabbed and I slabbed to see what the percentage premium.
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='5382' dateline='1356831612'Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='5359' dateline='1356785744'Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4975' dateline='1356348826'You have to ignore pcgs sales as who can deprecate the coin value and the value of an American telling you what the grade of a coin is using a non australian standard.
Have you attended any recent major public auction? People don't pay based on the listed Australian standard grades, they pay based on what PCGS will grade them.
That is right. You are paying a premium for an American telling you what the coin is graded at under the American system. Would be interesting to see if you could auction the same coin in the same auction both slabbed and I slabbed to see what the percentage premium.
It is the global grading system, Bigfellani5, not just an American one. Getting high quality coins certified by NGC or PCGS maximises their resale value. Not sure why you're so dead against independent grading.
That is right. You are paying a premium for an American telling you what the coin is graded at under the American system. Would be interesting to see if you could auction the same coin in the same auction both slabbed and I slabbed to see what the percentage premium.
I actually did this a while back using 2 coins with eBay as the auction format , 1 slabbed by PCGS and 1 raw.
The Raw coin in my opinion was a slightly better grade coin. The slabbed coin sold for a bit better than Blue sheet price, The raw coin was way under.
The results were surprising and a bit frightening.
The slabbed coin sold for more than 60% better than the raw coin.
It looks like If we want to sell our coins and get full market value for them we HAVE to get some yank to grade it for us dumb Aussies before we sell it.
I personally find that insulting and is the major reason for my distaste for Australian coins in US slabs.
The Major dealers and players have slowly introduced this "Alien" concept of slabbing and grading into the Australian coin scene and it looks like we are now "Stuck" with it due to the efforts of a minority that simply want to "Value add" to their coins at auction.
Regardless of what we the average collector thinks of this we are stuck with it and the prices of coins will escalate due to the perceived idea that higher quality coins are found ONLY in slabs and the TPG's will grow even fatter from the slabbing fees involved.
This whole idea of sending OUR coins over to the US to be graded is becoming a "Tax" on our coins due to the fees and shipping costs that are most certainly passed along to the eventual buyer.
Income tax, import tax, GST, Carbon tax now we have "Coin Tax"
:dash1::dash1::dash1:
Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='5382' dateline='1356831612'Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='5359' dateline='1356785744'Quote from: 'Bigfellani5' pid='4975' dateline='1356348826'You have to ignore pcgs sales as who can deprecate the coin value and the value of an American telling you what the grade of a coin is using a non australian standard.
Have you attended any recent major public auction? People don't pay based on the listed Australian standard grades, they pay based on what PCGS will grade them.
That is right. You are paying a premium for an American telling you what the coin is graded at under the American system. Would be interesting to see if you could auction the same coin in the same auction both slabbed and I slabbed to see what the percentage premium.
I think what wwwww is saying, is that the prices realised at auction even for raw coins, are based on the guide price for the same coin if it had been slabbed, not its raw value.
I wouldn't expect this too much at an online auction like eBay, but where the coins can be viewed, you might see a few raw coins achieve higher than expected prices.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='5384' dateline='1356834043'I actually did this a while back using 2 coins with eBay as the auction format , 1 slabbed by PCGS and 1 raw.
The Raw coin in my opinion was a slightly better grade coin. The slabbed coin sold for a bit better than Blue sheet price, The raw coin was way under.
The results were surprising and a bit frightening.
The slabbed coin sold for more than 60% better than the raw coin.
It looks like If we want to sell our coins and get full market value for them we HAVE to get some yank to grade it for us dumb Aussies before we sell it.
If I recall correctly your photo of the coins was sub-par and you intentionally undergraded the raw coin. So in reality, the market has 60% more confidence in PCGS grades than your grades, because your photo wasn't good enough to grade from.
I posted up an example a while back of a 1926 florin, NGC slabbed UNC Details - harshly cleaned that realised about $150 in HA, the coin later appeared out of its slab in a major Australian auction graded Uncirculated with no mention of the cleaning and realised $1000 + commission. 660% more than the slabbed coin.
That is the type of premium problem, raw coins go for. Yes, if you have a good eye you can get quality coins cheaper raw but an overwhelming majority of raw coins would sell less slabbed simply because they wouldn't make the grades they're claimed to be at.
QuoteI actually did this a while back using 2 coins with eBay as the auction format , 1 slabbed by PCGS and 1 raw.
The Raw coin in my opinion was a slightly better grade coin. The slabbed coin sold for a bit better than Blue sheet price, The raw coin was way under.
The results were surprising and a bit frightening.
I thought the prices you got were about the same, especially if you factored in the cost to slab the coin.
It is the global grading system
Dr William sheldon introduced this systen into the US coin community in 1949, It has been adapted and modified by US and Canadian TPG's since then.
In Australia the United Kingdom and most of Europe they have their own grading systems and these have worked (Quite nicely thank you) for quite some time now.
Just because the US and Canada have accepted this system of grading doesn’t make it a "global grading System" YET.
It makes it a North American grading system that is creeping into every corner of the world, mainly due to the efforts of the major TPG companies.
A bit like Coca Cola, tastes like crap but it can be found worldwide.
So why don't we do it with coins?? We now have aussie people grade and slab our trading cards :scratch_one-s_head:
I thought the prices you got were about the same, especially if you factored in the cost to slab the coin.
Yeah "Coin Tax" :dance2:
Quote from: 'trout' pid='5388' dateline='1356835219'It is the global grading system
Dr William sheldon introduced this systen into the US coin community in 1949, It has been adapted and modified by US and Canadian TPG's since then.
In Australia the United Kingdom and most of Europe they have their own grading systems and these have worked (Quite nicely thank you) for quite some time now.
Just because the US and Canada have accepted this system of grading doesn’t make it a "global grading System" YET.
It makes it a North American grading system that is creeping into every corner of the world, mainly due to the efforts of the major TPG companies.
A bit like Coca Cola, tastes like crap but it can be found worldwide.
That's like arguing the standard measurement system in the UK is the British Imperial system just because they invented it even though most British people use the metric system.
PCGS IS the Australian standard because it is what most collectors use.
Posted by wwwww - Today 01:45 PM
PCGS IS the Australian standard because it is what most collectors use.
I know this is a silly question but why?? I'm serious as I don't know much about slabs and never seen one except in post or ebay etc and it just seems a personal opinion as to what they use as some people say PCGS but then other say NGC ICG ANACS etc so it's all very confusing sorry
PCGS IS the Australian standard because it is what most collectors use.
I will have to agree to disagree with you on this Walter.
The Adjectival grading system is STILL used in most cases by Australian "Collectors"
PCGS isn't a grading system it is a multinational grading Company that uses the Sheldon System.
This system has been adopted mainly by "Dealers" NOT "Collectors" in Australia and in MHO is being forced down our collective throats.
If it wasn’t so damned expensive it may have a chance but adding another $50 per coin is an awfully expensive way to change your grading habits.
That's like arguing the standard measurement system in the UK is the British Imperial system just because they invented it even though most British people use the metric system.
This is quite amusing because the US still uses an almost identical system still.
It's all about Horses for Courses, Each to thier own opinions.
I've been lookin and found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Party_Grader so is it all because the yanks started it in 72 from what I could gather but we all know how much we can trust the net, I'm just curious as I doubt I'll ever own one :)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='5395' dateline='1356836819'Posted by wwwww - Today 01:45 PM
PCGS IS the Australian standard because it is what most collectors use.
I know this is a silly question but why?? I'm serious as I don't know much about slabs and never seen one except in post or ebay etc and it just seems a personal opinion as to what they use as some people say PCGS but then other say NGC ICG ANACS etc so it's all very confusing sorry
NGC and the others are used to a lesser extent in Australia, PCGS is by far the dominant service.
Quote from: 'trout' pid='5396' dateline='1356836968'PCGS IS the Australian standard because it is what most collectors use.
I will have to agree to disagree with you on this Walter.
The Adjectival grading system is STILL used in most cases by Australian "Collectors"
PCGS isn't a grading system it is a multinational grading Company that uses the Sheldon System.
This system has been adopted mainly by "Dealers" NOT "Collectors" in Australia and in MHO is being forced down our collective throats.
Most Australian collectors (at least for gold and pre-decimal) use PCGS, this is easily demonstrated by the prices realised for both raw coins and certified coins at public auction.
It isn't dealers who are forcing collectors to adopt PCGS, it's collectors who are forcing dealers to adopt. Pacific Rim Coins was the only dealer who originally sold PCGS graded coins - other dealers switched over because it is what collectors wanted.
Dealers are businessmen and women
If they don't adapt to market forces they go broke , just like any other business does. The market has choices available and customers do the talking with their wallets
I now have an 'android' tablet - a galaxy (samsung brand) my friends have Ipads - consumer choices at work.
I am in the middle of the road about slabs - have some but also have far more raw coins than slabs but having been stung a few too many times with overgraded raw coins from ANDA sellers, I definately see the benefits of the PCGS grading system. Additionally, i like the chances that the genuine classification is there. With all of the dodgey sellers on mediums like ebay - how can you be sure that your 1934/5 florin is genuine? I know that there are fake slabs too but at least it helps to level the playing field.
QuoteIt isn't dealers who are forcing collectors to adopt PCGS, it's collectors who are forcing dealers to adopt.
I agree completely. Dealers would not stock slabbed coins if they could not sell it. The fact that slabbed coins do sell shows that they are what the market wants. Agree or disagree with the principal of slabbing but theres no denying where the market is heading.
Welcome Greg to our forum.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5456' dateline='1356934215'Welcome Greg to our forum.
Wow:yahoo:
Welcome Greg
:wavemulticolor:
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5456' dateline='1356934215'Welcome Greg to our forum.
The topic of grading seems to have taken over the thread. In a previous life the forum started a thread "corrections for the ??th McDonalds" after the release of a new edition to help with the next edition. Haven't seen one here yet and just wondering if we were going to continue the tradition.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='5459' dateline='1356935720'Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5456' dateline='1356934215'Welcome Greg to our forum.
The topic of grading seems to have taken over the thread. In a previous life the forum started a thread "corrections for the ??th McDonalds" after the release of a new edition to help with the next edition. Haven't seen one here yet and just wondering if we were going to continue the tradition.
I haven't recived my new book yet, Hopefully it will be at my post office when I came back from this job :yahoo:
Welcome Greg.
Looking forward to your input.
I think Greg would have had a quiet chuckle to himself reading this thread, Considering His books and Rennics still use the ANDA grading system:yahoo:
Good on you Greg:yahoo:
A great Aussie book for Aussies.
i realy enjoy the NCLT section in these books :good:
Image on bottom of Page 217 of the new book. And our blog article here:
http://www.australian-threepence.com/blog/2011/03/1966-mint-set-the-fastbuck-wallet.html
Hmmmm.
Oh and on page 244 2011 International Year of the Volunteer PNC image is lifted directly from our blog article as is the image of the 2012 Australian Open PNC on page 245. You can still see the top of our copyright watermark on the lower right of both images.
2011 Remembrance PNC at top of page 244 is our image too. As is the image of the Presidents Cup PNC below it.
:pirate:
well that's worth a few free copies for you mark :mafia:
I take it no permission was asked for?
I also see Purple penny hunter got a thanks at the start of the book at least.
No permission was asked for. PPH will be along shortly to explain why her name is in the book.
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='5479' dateline='1356953711'I take it no permission was asked for?
I also see Purple penny hunter got a thanks at the start of the book at least.
No permission was asked.
We give permission for lots of people to use our images, they only have to ask. In return we only require a couple of things. I am very very careful when I write for the Australian Coin Collecting Blog about where it sources images if they are not our own, it's all about respect -oh and the law. Its taken us a lot of time and money to perfect our photography and our images have our watermark (copyright) for a reason.
My name is in the book because of help I gave Greg through the Aussiecoins/ACBO forum on corrections and mintages. That was about 2009.
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5506' dateline='1356993896'Quote from: 'enworb' pid='5479' dateline='1356953711'I take it no permission was asked for?
I also see Purple penny hunter got a thanks at the start of the book at least.
No permission was asked.
We give permission for lots of people to use our images, they only have to ask. In return we only require a couple of things. I am very very careful when I write for the Australian Coin Collecting Blog about where it sources images if they are not our own, it's all about respect -oh and the law. Its taken us a lot of time and money to perfect our photography and our images have our watermark (copyright) for a reason.
My name is in the book because of help I gave Greg through the Aussiecoins/ACBO forum on corrections and mintages. That was about 2009.
This is a sort of Backhanded compliment PP, Yours must have been the best images that Greg could find.
However I do agree that Permission should have been asked before using your intellectual property, I hope Greg makes the appropriate apologies and makes this good.
I haven’t got the book yet, but if someone had pinched my pictures to make money out of it lets just say shite would hit the fan.
I share pictures of coins and stuff to help others identify their own coins, not for them to be claimed by other people as their own.
QuoteThis is a sort of Backhanded compliment PP, Yours must have been the best images that Greg could find.
There's nothing complimentary about it. It's no better than an eBay seller using one of our images to represent a coin they don't have and no better than someone selling unlicensed Batman t-shirts.
A quote from the Australian Copyright Law website.
QuoteThe mere act of uploading your photos to a website or blog does not mean that you lose copyright
protection. However, given that it is easy for people to reproduce photos they find on the internet, it
is a good idea to take some practical measures to help protect against this, in addition to relying on
your legal rights. For example, you should consider watermarking your photos with your name and
the copyright notice (this may also give you an additional right of action if someone removes the
watermark). You should also put a clear statement on your website about copyright and how
people can get permission if they want to use your work. For more information see our information
sheet Websites & copyright.
Im surprised Greg was so careless/disrespectful. I would feel pretty cheated if it were my photos taken (not that mine are good enough to take lol).
Gudday everyone
I appreciated the invitation to join the new forum and I hope that members will continue to help make improvements and correct mistakes. One mistake I am really ashamed of was using a few pics with getting written permission. I got an email from Mark and I posted the following reply the same day. I am posting it here with another apology. It is not my style to not give credit to people who help me with information in the book. If you look at the gold section I have given full credit to Barrie Winsor and his son Tim. In the LSD section I have given special mention to Klaus Ford and several other dealers; in the decimal section there are numerous mentions (as there should be) of Wayne Roberts; In the banknote sections there are special mentions to thank Judy Shaw, Trevor Wilkin, John Petitt and Rob Jackman. As well as this I try and cover as many people as humanly possible. If I've missed anyone I sincerely apologise.
A lot of what I have read so far concerns criticisms of pricing. Many of the comments posted here would be covered if the writer could spare a few minutes to read the comments on page 8. Under a heading reading "NOTE REGARDING PRICING IN THIS BOOK."
It then goes on to say "PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE GOING TO THE PRICING SECTION."
The first sentence starts by saving " It cannot be stressed strongly enough that the prices listed in this book are a guide......."
The text then goes on to explain that low quality coin and banknote prices are not valued just on the items itself but has a premium to cover the cost of sorting, grading, packaging, identifying etc. THe prices in the book relate to dealers who pay their GST and the host of other taxes associated with running a business.
In short, I don't mind constructive criticism, but Geez guys please don't look at the 30 or 40 pages out of a book that runs to over 500 pages and go for the jugular without reading the "instructions."
I hope someone will start up a "Corrections for the 21st edition." I would appreciate all your feedback. Earlier is better than later. It's not uncommon for people who have really important information to post it to me in the mad pre-press four weeks leading up to print day.
A number of you made the comment that I should get the book out earlier in the year. Actually this year I was ready to go to the printer the second week of November. Then the gremlins got into computer system and somehow over 3000 pics unlinked when I did a backup for the printer. They had to be found and relinked one at a time and that's the main reason for the delay. However the printer told me about some updated software and a new computer that should solve the problem. The difficulty is that most programs out there are for "home us". Things can get "iffy" when you start trying to do a file that contains over 3000 full colour pics.
Anyway my $6000 worth of new computer and software arrives in the net few days so all going to plan all future editions will be ready by the last week of November.
Thank you for reading this far. I encourage everyone to support this new venture. Congratulations to everyone involved in setting it up and having a go.
Best wishes for the New Year
Greg Mac
Hi Mark,
I sincerely apologise if I have upset you regarding the image on page 217. It was not intentional. I have two other images of the same set (with different names) I could have used and I don't really know why I picked yours in particular. I have over 20,000 images in my file that II have collected from everywhere. I guess I have been spoilt over the years as companies such as Baldwins and Spink in London, Heritage in the USA as well as Nobles, Wrights and Downies have given me carte blanche to use any pics I want as it all helps to promote the hobby. On the flip side I get dozens of requests each year from collectors wanting to use information in my books for articles and presentations and I always allow this for the same reasons. Sometimes I get an acknowledgement and sometimes I don't but in the end I don't care.
I can fully appreciate if you don't share this fairly loose "give and take" and I can assure you I will remove the image and use an alternative.
Once again my apologies.
Regards for the New Year
Greg McDonald
Greg,
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure your input will be most welcome.
Hopefully we've heard the last of the picture issue as that could have been dealt with privately. There was nothing to gain from raising it publicly in the forum immediately after you were welcomed. It happened, you've explained apologized, it's over and done with (hopefully) but I would also have been peeved had they been mine.
Again welcome and someone will likely start a corrections thread to take the book ahead rather than run it down.
Steve
:welcome: Greg
:laugh2: sorry mate but please forgive me as you have to be joking "give and take". What does that means if people aren't happy with your actions?? So what do you give, besides an appology after you've taken something illegally and made money from it. You know it's called theft when you take something that's not your or you don't have LEGAL permition to use said item. So if I were you I'd be very careful of your business practices in future as people don't think like they use to and saying sorry just doesn't cut it any more and I don't think a judge would buy your excuse of so many pic's blah blah blah. And as soon as they see you've been doing this book for a long time they might even investigate to see what else you've been up to as the government is funny about things like that. So please do the right thing in future and get permition as you will do this to the wrong person one day and they will make you pay big time.
But I'd like to thank you as the guide was a big help when I first started but have found that due to incorrect information that doesn't get changed (eg mintage figures) and with very little extra content (I know this is a hard one to do anything about sorry) in each new edition I get most of the new info from the net as it so much quicker, easier and cheaper as your book is quite dear when your on a DSP and by the time I can afford one it's at least 5 years out of date..but such id life :) Sorry mate but the world isn't a nice place any more and it's not getting any better so good luck with it all..oh and don't worry I have the same complaint with the wrong info in rennik's as well so I'm not just havin a go at you :) Please don't take this to heart mate and hang around as we'll all have a say, some good and some not so and maybe even have a few fights here and there but what family doesn't but then it's all good as they're a pretty good bunch on here..I'm the trouble maker so just ignore me and enjoy :)
Question time!
Where and how do you get your mintage's from?
Hi Steve & Jack,
Well I guess you couldn't get two more diverse replies to my recent blog. Thank you Steve for your understanding. We all make mistakes and I have owned up to mine.
Jack I could better understand your tirade if I had denied any wrong doing. This is my 25th book and the first time something like this has happened. I keep duplicates on many images and I pressed the wrong button. I am fully aware that there could be legal issues with this as I have been a member of the Australian Authors and Writers Association since 1984. I've admitted my error and apologised both personally and publicly.... which way to the scaffold? What more can I say!
Oddly enough it has been my experience that when an item appears in a book the value of the item goes up. In the recent Bentley auction in London (where the 1920 sov on the front cover sold for over $1m) there are a number of references regarding a certain lot being the "plate image" in my book. To most numismatists this added pedigree of a coin or banknote can boost the value. I'm not saying that to water down my error but it is a fact.
In fact, about 10 or 12 years ago a collector with an almost complete collection of Australian banknotes offered me quite a lot of money for me to illustrate his banknotes in my book. I declined as I had better images for most of the notes and I didn't want the book to go "down scale."
I am also sorry that you feel the books offers nothing new. I would have thought that about 80 pages of new information on early Australian banknotes that took months of research would have accounted for something. You might remember that a few years ago Wayne Roberts informed me that the decimal section was very sketchy and missing a lot of information. I didn't tell him to get lost or say it was all too hard. He gave me the information and I included it. When Barrie Winsor suggested I change the entire format of the sovereigns and half sovereigns and add an extra 70 images, I took that on board as I also did with suggestions by others to include first and last prefixes to the banknotes. I think I have always been open minded to all suggestions but I cannot invent history. I can only publish what is available. Yes you are right about the mintage figures. I can only print the numbers I am told. I have written to the mint on a number of times asking for updates as I've had complaints but nothing has happened. If it really bugs you why don't list the corrections and I can promise you they will be in the next edition. If you do it I will be happy to send you a free copy of the hardbound book which is limited to just 500 copies a year. I will also make the same offer to anyone else who makes a substantial contribution to improving the book.
I'd like to close by saying that every year I make a conscious effort to produce the best book I am capable of. It might come as a surprise to some of you that our work staff is just Jenny and I so as well as the book (plus two others in the pipeline) we look after the interests of our Insider Club as well as attend to all the stuff that goes into running a business. On top of that I answer over 1200 enquiries a year from general collectors wanting help or advice. I do my best. I miss some but I answer most ... all free of charge and in most cases I even have to pay the postage.
I hope this just about covers everything
Regards
Greg
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='5625' dateline='1357155085'Greg,
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure your input will be most welcome.
Hopefully we've heard the last of the picture issue as that could have been dealt with privately. There was nothing to gain from raising it publicly in the forum immediately after you were welcomed. It happened, you've explained apologized, it's over and done with (hopefully) but I would also have been peeved had they been mine.
Again welcome and someone will likely start a corrections thread to take the book ahead rather than run it down.
Steve
I agree with this, except where it says "but I would also have been peeved had they been mine."
I would have been over the moon if one of MY Pic's made it into Macka's book :yahoo:
I consider Gregs Apology very public and very honest, this hoo hah about borrowed images should be put to bed by now.
C'mon you blokes , you are mates, so live and let live and let byegones be bygones :good:
Looking forward to further interesting input from PP,Makn and Greg.
:cray:
So Ausjack,
Is that a yes you want to help or no you don't. No hurry I can wait until you get over your cold.
Greg
Hi Greg,
Is the hard cover you mention available for purchase at all ?
-rob
So Greg what coin do you collect :)
Hi Greg - welcome - I am fairly new to this forum as well. I live in the ACT, collect pre-decs (& other junk) and Tony Byrne is my coin dealer! I like your books and they have improved each year that I have bought them. Although, I confess that I haven't got the latest ed. Waiting to catch up with Tony in the New Year to procure one. Cheers Robbie
Welcome Greg. Glad Perth mint stayed on your book although you have problems with them
Hi Greg .Welcome to the Forum,I look forward to reading your posts as I'm sure that we can all learn from your experience
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