Im not too sure about this one. Its quite different to the indent I purchased a little while back. There is some weakness in some of the devices around the 'indented' area.
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1160_zps39024ec1.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1160_zps39024ec1.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1161_zps0a01f25d.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1161_zps0a01f25d.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1162_zps0833b601.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1162_zps0833b601.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1166_zpsae69fd7b.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1166_zpsae69fd7b.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1167_zps7d6c1a5b.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1167_zps7d6c1a5b.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1168_zps4f51280f.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1168_zps4f51280f.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1169_zpse1003dab.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1169_zpse1003dab.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1170_zpsce48d9de.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1170_zpsce48d9de.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1171_zps5421c4d7.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1171_zps5421c4d7.jpg.html)
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/enworb5/IMG_1172_zpsa496ac5e.jpg) (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/enworb5/media/IMG_1172_zpsa496ac5e.jpg.html)
Struck on a thinned planchet. Very similar to this one:
(http://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/australia-1964-1d-thin-planchet.jpg)
Thank you mark. Any idea how a thinned planchet like that can occur?
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='19469' dateline='1372241201'Thank you mark. Any idea how a thinned planchet like that can occur?
No idea. Perhaps when the metal was rolled there was some scrap on top of the metal that was rolled into the strip. After rolling it fell out and left a "dent" for want of a better word? Another idea is that the planchet was punched out of the metal strip near the edge and perhaps it was thinning out near that edge. I actually don't really know. The one we've got was the first one I've seen, and it's funny that now I've seen another one just a couple of weeks later.
The million dollar question; value?
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='19472' dateline='1372241827'The million dollar question; value?
I'll buy it if you want to sell it. PM me and I'll tell you what I paid for mine.
Interesting that both are 1964's and both in really great condition.
Geez I'm going to have to dig my 64's out now .... (surely I would have seen it if I had one, but no harm in checking .... lol)
A cold shut could do that if the metal separated before being struck.
And speaking of cold shuts, I just found a 2012 10ยข a few minutes ago with a lovely example on the reverse. Looks like a miniature crochet hook squashed into the coin. Piccies in due course...
Ive never heard of a cold shut fulvio. Care to elaborate for me?
Sure. Cold shuts happen, usually in casting, when hot metal meets cold(er) metal. It crystallizes into two separate but attached chunks. In the case of coins, they show us as spurs from the rim extending into the coin in a curve. Sort of like a little scythe shape.
I can see a big cold shut falling apart, depending on how the planchet is cut into it. That would give you the right shape to end up looking like those pennies.
Thanks fulvio that sounds half plausible
Quote from: 'enworb' pid='19472' dateline='1372241827'The million dollar question; value?
the value is held with the collector
they usually determine the value by what they'll pay
or swap
Indeed, RG. "Its worth whatever some mug will pay for it"
yes
there has been many a time I have made a mug of myself with coins
I am a little wiser now
A cold shunt was described to me this way.
Sometimes you may have seen your mum or someone rolling pastry with a rolling pin. Some times the, a scrap piece of pastry was folded onto the rolled pastry and was then itself, rolled. Now, at a a glance, this tag appeared to have been absorbed into the rolled pastry. But wait. Leave the pastry alone for a while and this tag will start to lift slightly. it has not fully been absorbed into the bulk pastry . This is the same in the steel metal industry. I used to work at ALCAN Australian and watch the large aluminium ingots being rolled into long sheets, up to 3 miles long. On occasions, I would witness a loose bit of aluminium on the sheet before it went through the mill. Same as the pastry example.
Now when that piece of sheet/blank is stamped or put under some form of mould pressure, it will lift up. Just as shown in the scans.
That is a cold shunt.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='19512' dateline='1372256123'A cold shunt was described to me this way.
Sometimes you may have seen your mum or someone rolling pastry with a rolling pin. Some times the, a scrap piece of pastry was folded onto the rolled pastry and was then itself, rolled. Now, at a a glance, this tag appeared to have been absorbed into the rolled pastry. But wait. Leave the pastry alone for a while and this tag will start to lift slightly. it has not fully been absorbed into the bulk pastry . This is the same in the steel metal industry. I used to work at ALCAN Australian and watch the large aluminium ingots being rolled into long sheets, up to 3 miles long. On occasions, I would witness a loose bit of aluminium on the sheet before it went through the mill. Same as the pastry example.
Now when that piece of sheet/blank is stamped or put under some form of mould pressure, it will lift up. Just as shown in the scans.
That is a cold shunt.
That sounds remarkably like what I described above. OK now it has a name. Thanks goldy.
Quote from: 'Goldseeker' pid='19512' dateline='1372256123'A cold shunt was described to me this way.
Sometimes you may have seen your mum or someone rolling pastry with a rolling pin. Some times the, a scrap piece of pastry was folded onto the rolled pastry and was then itself, rolled. Now, at a a glance, this tag appeared to have been absorbed into the rolled pastry. But wait. Leave the pastry alone for a while and this tag will start to lift slightly. it has not fully been absorbed into the bulk pastry . This is the same in the steel metal industry. I used to work at ALCAN Australian and watch the large aluminium ingots being rolled into long sheets, up to 3 miles long. On occasions, I would witness a loose bit of aluminium on the sheet before it went through the mill. Same as the pastry example.
Now when that piece of sheet/blank is stamped or put under some form of mould pressure, it will lift up. Just as shown in the scans.
That is a cold shunt.
and is that also our fabulous 'planchet peel' that we see today?
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='19634' dateline='1372335306'and is that also our fabulous 'planchet peel' that we see today?
Sometimes, perhaps. But I think most peels are due to impurities in the metal causing it to bond poorly.
impurities in the metal causing it to bond poorly
Thanks Mark, that's what I was trying to explain ages ago :good: but couldn't get it thru :( metal doesn't all mix the same hence all the different tests now being questioned. eg when they say a bullet come from a certain batch they have found out that this isn't true as you can have a box of bullets and the metal will test different..wish I could remember the show I see it on and they told us a similar thing thru different metal things I've done like welding and glassier..very interesting that glass is always a liquid..true, and to see this just look at really old windows and you'll see the glass is thincker on the bottom :)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='19659' dateline='1372376576'impurities in the metal causing it to bond poorly
Thanks Mark, that's what I was trying to explain ages ago :good: but couldn't get it thru :( metal doesn't all mix the same hence all the different tests now being questioned. eg when they say a bullet come from a certain batch they have found out that this isn't true as you can have a box of bullets and the metal will test different..wish I could remember the show I see it on and they told us a similar thing thru different metal things I've done like welding and glassier..very interesting that glass is always a liquid..true, and to see this just look at really old windows and you'll see the glass is thincker on the bottom :)
We had someone give a talk at coin club a while back about a world wide project researching ancient greek coins. Basically they are performing x-ray spectography on ancient greek coins and from this they can tell where the silver was mined and most of the time WHEN it was mined. So, they could test a tetradrachm with a design that dates it to 350BC but tell that the silver was mined 200 years early in Turkey.
very interesting so the one's doing all the fakes better look out soon if they can get it to work
Great info Markn, another very cool offshoot of Numismatics.!!