I've finally joined the club of having received a negative Ebay feedback after 12 years. Buyer alleges the coin is a fake which I obviously disagree with so I'm after independent opinions.
I always put high quality images on my sales. This is the close-up of the coin:
(//%5BURL=http://s164.photobucket.com/user/Steveqld/media/Coins/196620CentWaveyBaseRev_close-up_zpsc94141a8.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/Steveqld/Coins/196620CentWaveyBaseRev_close-up_zpsc94141a8.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Buyer was slow to pay and said he took it to a dealer in Brisbane and "Two Dealers" told him it was a fake. I've actually been into that dealer twice in the last week and the Dealer Principal is away and a young couple have been there. I've also sent an email off to them asking them to confirm their opinion to him and I'm interested in why they have that opinion. Buyer was extremely aggressive to the extent that I offered to meet him in the foyer of his local Police Station to refund. Eg this was his first contact with me:
HELLO I AM SAM I BOUGHT THAT 20 CENT PIECE AND YOU SOLD IT TOO ME AS A WAVVY 2 1966 WELL AS YOU MUST KNOW TOO SELL FAKE COINS IT IS A FEDARAL CRIME AND THE POLICE WILL FIND OUT UNLESS YOU RING ME VERY SOON FOR MY MONEY BACK ASAP I MEAN TODAY YOU CAN DROP IT OF I LIVE IN BRISBANE OR I WILL PICK IT UP NO PAY PAL NO ONE IS GOING TO FIND OUT UNLESSYOU WHANT TOO I WILL GO TOO THE POLICE AND FEDRAL POLICE TOMMORROW JUST GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY BACK AND POSTAGE AND TAKE YOU 20 CENT PIECE BACK AND STOP SELLING SHIT ########## MOBLIE############
So the options are:
a) I have no idea and this isn't a Wavey Base
b) The "fill in Dealer" is mistaken in their opinion
c) The "fill in Dealer" believes it is genuine but tells his customers otherwise to deter Ebay purchases and to increase their own sales
d) The buyer is telling me a load of crock
In the event the buyer ever gets around to returning the coin I wanted some other opinions on authenticity before I consider relisting.
Many thanks.
Looks genuine to me. Unfortunate you had to deal with such a buyer. Hold your head up and move on. You met this guy at the police station for refund??
(http://www.australian-threepence.com/images/australia-1966-20c-wavy.jpg)
Meet him at a police station and get the coin back and give him his money back. Looks real to me.
Looks good to me, i would make sure he gives you the same coin back. if you do decide to go to your local police station for a refund
I concur. If it is a fake it is a very good one.
It looks kosher to me. If I was in the market for a wavy, I would have bid on it without hesitation.
Make sure that you are getting back the exact same coin before you refund the money. He might be running a scam, where he buys a genuine coin, carries on like this to get a refund, and hands back a totally different coin.
Stick to your guns too, and make the exchange at a Police Station, and take a witness with you if possible.
If i was in your shoes i would think this person is
Either "really stupid" or "a scammer"
If they bought it based on good picture then they already know what they are getting.
So it sounds like a scam to me.
If you agree to a refund what are the chances you will get the correct coin back?
I would agree to a refund at the police station. Tell them you will be bringing all records and ask for fraud charges to be laid if the correct coin is not returned.
This should deter a scammer and if they honestly believe the coin is not right you are doing the right thing by someone even if they probably don't deserve it.
I agree with ozcoins as to the approach.
The following marks should be enough for you to confirm your coin.
Good Luck eh!
[attachment=2043]
Be sure to have the images of your original coin taken from Ebay with you when you make the exchange, either hard copies, on your mobile or laptop, so you can check the coin he returns for any identifying features, just in case he is a scammer. Don't forget to take a loupe.
Good luck!
This kind of thing burns me up. Especially when its a moron who can't even speak proper english.
I dug out both of mine and compared them closely to yours. Its genuine all right, as everyone has said.
Police station, documentation, make sure you get the right coin back, and bring a friend with a camera just in case.
Yep def get your coin back mate, stuff dealing with people like that. Like others have said, just make sure he doesn't try and give you a different coin back.. I'm no pro but your's for sure looks legit mate..
Matt
I agree, one of the best looking wavey lines I have seen. I support all previous comments.
Mate I so sorry to hear, gee we've been havin a lot of this crap lately and it shits me to tears..there's no need for it as I agree with all the above and here's a sad pic of mine sorry but I think it's real and I hope this bastard is on you bad buyer list (http://i43.tinypic.com/22z02f.jpg)
And I say go right ahead and I'll even ring the feds for ya..what a crock :( I think you'd want to have pretty good proof of it being fake to got to the cops or they'd just laugh at ya :good:
Yes I agree its definately genuine and the buyer obviously doesnt know what a wavy 20 looks like
or might have been testing to see if you were confident enough to stick to your guns,either way
its a mongrel act and unfortunately these idiots are out there
that's a bloody good wavvy too so his lose..what a tosser, I'll gladly swap ya when ya get it back Stevo :)
and I'll swap you to PP, now that is a ball teara..nice clean, plenty of detail..very very nice :good:
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='17806' dateline='1371011471'Yes I agree its definately genuine and the buyer obviously doesnt know what a wavy 20 looks like
or might have been testing to see if you were confident enough to stick to your guns,either way
its a mongrel act and unfortunately these idiots are out there
Buyer/Seller is a crock
He must know, does the following listing look familiar.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-AUSTRALIAN-WAVVY-2-20-CENT-PIECE-/261224786170?nma=true&si=2RO5gEsmyfjJzOL6ZurkJPpt%252FmQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Yep looks like the same coin to me FP, it has the straight mark on the top of the 2 and those 2 funny little marks on the bottom on the left of the base line..I'd say same coin :good:
Quote from: 'Fordprefect' pid='17809' dateline='1371012404'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='17806' dateline='1371011471'Yes I agree its definately genuine and the buyer obviously doesnt know what a wavy 20 looks like
or might have been testing to see if you were confident enough to stick to your guns,either way
its a mongrel act and unfortunately these idiots are out there
Buyer/Seller is a crock
He must know, does the following listing look familiar.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-AUSTRALIAN-WAVVY-2-20-CENT-PIECE-/261224786170?nma=true&si=2RO5gEsmyfjJzOL6ZurkJPpt%252FmQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Thanks for that FP. Definitely the same coin as per the nicks on the 2 as well as the rim nicks from 12 o'clock to 2.00o'clock. You should be a Detective.
If he sold it on 5/6/13 then it couldn't be the same one he showed the coin dealer yesterday.
I'd also be suspicious of the buyer. Usually people with a fb rating of 15 don't buy $399 coins and it's grossly overpriced at that.
Steve
Am I missing something here ......... :close_tema:
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='17812' dateline='1371014891'Am I missing something here ......... :close_tema:
I sold the coin to a buyer on 26/5/13. On 2/6/13 he listed the same coin and sold it on 5/6/13. On 6/6/13 the buyer on that occasion posted +ve feedback:
Great seller , super fast delivery ,vry happy with item thank uSo my buyer didn't have the coin after 6/6/13.
On 11/6/13 I got many abusive emails to the effect that he had shown the coin to a dealer that same day and they said it wasn't genuine and threatening me with the Police etc etc. He didn't have the coin on 11/6/13 as he had sold it the week before. A straight out scam and no doubt if I had cooperated he would have given me a different coin.
I've also spoken to the Dealer Principal at the Dealership he allegedly took the coin to. Apparently my buyer is taking the coin in to him tomorrow for him to have a look at.
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='17811' dateline='1371014391'Quote from: 'Fordprefect' pid='17809' dateline='1371012404'Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='17806' dateline='1371011471'Yes I agree its definately genuine and the buyer obviously doesnt know what a wavy 20 looks like
or might have been testing to see if you were confident enough to stick to your guns,either way
its a mongrel act and unfortunately these idiots are out there
Buyer/Seller is a crock
He must know, does the following listing look familiar.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-AUSTRALIAN-WAVVY-2-20-CENT-PIECE-/261224786170?nma=true&si=2RO5gEsmyfjJzOL6ZurkJPpt%252FmQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I'd also be suspicious of the buyer. Usually people with a fb rating of 15 don't buy $399 coins and it's grossly overpriced at that.
Steve
That account looks to be his "Go Too" account when he wishes to
muddy the water of a particular item.
Block him and that 15 ID from bidding on your listings.
Don't refund!
well this bloke go234coins bought the wavy 20 from Stevo and wanted his money back saying it's fake and sid he'd go to the cops and federal police but we can see that he sold this coin to riss079 so the plot thickens and looks like this bloke is trying some sort of underhanded deal or somethings going on that is really really suss..I'd be thinking about gettin the cops in to bust him..SCAMMER for sure..go get him Stevo :aggressive: :police_car:
Thanks Steve & Ausjack .... now it makes sense.
(Was starting to get confused there for a minute)
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='17815' dateline='1371016030'well this bloke go234coins bought the wavy 20 from Stevo and wanted his money back saying it's fake and sid he'd go to the cops and federal police but we can see that he sold this coin to riss079 so the plot thickens and looks like this bloke is trying some sort of underhanded deal or somethings going on that is really really suss..I'd be thinking about gettin the cops in to bust him..SCAMMER for sure..go get him Stevo :aggressive: :police_car:
I thought the quote was:
Book 'em, Danno
He's trying to scam you for sure Steve. Call his bluff if you can be bothered, otherwise just block him from ever buying from you again, and it might be a good idea for anyone else here that sells regularly on Ebay to do the same. Any coin he tries to palm off on you is going to be a ring in.
His selling spiel:
"WELL HERE WE HAVE A GREAT VERY RARE WAVVY 2 AUSTRALIAN 1966 20 CENT PIECE AS YOU CAN SEE A COIN IN THIS GRADING AND RARETY IS A ITEM NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY HAVE AND OWN WELL YOU CAN DONT MIS OUT ON THIS CHANCE AND THE 2013 MACDONALD POCKET GUIDE SAYS ITS PRICE AS A COIN WHICH HAS ALREADY GONE UP IN VALUE SINCE PRINT IS $1200 DOLLARS SO GOOD LUCK"
hang on
if he paid by paypal
and then wants cash
you give him cash ??? in person???? are you nuts???? - it's an ebay sale
he does a paypal claim - paypal refund from your account
he triples his dough
1. cash refund
2. paypal credit back
3. resell on
careful here
added to my blocked bidder list!
Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='17813' dateline='1371015607'Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='17812' dateline='1371014891'Am I missing something here ......... :close_tema:
I sold the coin to a buyer on 26/5/13. On 2/6/13 he listed the same coin and sold it on 5/6/13. On 6/6/13 the buyer on that occasion posted +ve feedback:
Great seller , super fast delivery ,vry happy with item thank u
So my buyer didn't have the coin after 6/6/13.
On 11/6/13 I got many abusive emails to the effect that he had shown the coin to a dealer that same day and they said it wasn't genuine and threatening me with the Police etc etc. He didn't have the coin on 11/6/13 as he had sold it the week before. A straight out scam and no doubt if I had cooperated he would have given me a different coin.
I've also spoken to the Dealer Principal at the Dealership he allegedly took the coin to. Apparently my buyer is taking the coin in to him tomorrow for him to have a look at.
Did you send the coin registered mail? if so, you have tracking and the delivery date is recorded by aussie post
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='17829' dateline='1371019918'hang on
if he paid by paypal
and then wants cash
you give him cash ??? in person???? are you nuts???? - it's an ebay sale
he does a paypal claim - paypal refund from your account
he triples his dough
1. cash refund
2. paypal credit back
3. resell on
careful here
I sent him an email last night that if he disputes the transaction then he should lodge a dispute with Paypal. I'm not meeting him and I'm not giving him cash. If I did that I wouldn't be able to get my Paypal fees back.
Robbie G, I didn't send the coin registered but he can't deny receipt because his pictures in his ebay listing are of the same coin as I have in my listing.
I'm over it. I'm not doing anything else except possibly report him to Ebay down the track. Nothing I can do about the -ve fb. So next step is up to him. Irrespective I think FP's highlighting his ebay sale of the same coin is enough to kill off any claim or complaint he lodges.
I'd report him to Ebay now, don't give him the chance to fire the next salvo. You have plenty of info to support you reporting him for an attempted scam, and Ebay should be able to remove the Neg FB he left.
His so called 'buyer' looks very suss to me. The coin was sold 5 Jun, posted ? , received ?, and FB left by both parties on 6 Jun.
His buyer has 15 FB Rating, from a total of 17 FB left, 5 of which are from him. Stinks worse than a bucket full of prawn shells in the hot sun.
I see he now uses Brisbane as his location, but earlier listings had Daisy Hill.
Please keep us informed of any developments. Verrry interesting!
You could give him a negative comment positive feedback.
edit: oh no wait, you already left fb :(
Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='17836' dateline='1371022218'You could give him a negative comment positive feedback.
edit: oh no wait, you already left fb :(
I think negative comments under +ve ratings is one of the grounds for removing feedback. Had already left fb as my sale ended a couple of weeks ago without problem.
Daisy Hill is a suburb on the southern side of Brisbane. I'm quite happy for him to fire the next salvo because I've nothing to worry about and I suspect it will come back to bite him especially if he does go to the Police.
It probably sounds a bit naïve but I think he has pulled a shonky with the Ebay sale to himself, he's been erroneously told that it's not genuine and he's then flown off the handle prematurely and inappropriately. All the threats were his way of going on the attack.
At last I've become a "member" of the forum with 50 posts. I rather liked being a "junior member" as I approach "old mid age".
he sounds like too much of a crook to go to the police
I agree with nevol, you may find that he tries the same con on other sellers as well
mate, always use registered post. paypal have to have proof of postage or they can renege on you big time
xx good luck with this, sounds like a nasty piece of work to me
just the language of it reminds me of a nutty seller and buyer who was on Oztion, then they went over to ebay , very threatening, very English as a second language in the abuse. Gee, i'm trying to remember as they tried some nasty stuff on myself and many other coin folk as well both on oztion and ebay. Very abusive and threatening, trying to bully people into handing over money. might come back to me later.
STEVE , I had the same trouble with a guy from parkes nsw years ago on ebay . sent him a 1985 set of proof coins with a cert , he jumped up and down for a while then sent them back for a full refund claiming the cert was from a 1987 set , so I gave him a refund for the full amount including post both ways , then I realised the cert,s are all the same for a few years and don't have any date on them at all .
so I then forgot about him , blackban him from bidding on my items ,and got on with my life .. he was just a wanker . ,, kel ,,
I would be looking at the appropriate way of reporting this to police as well.
The problem with people being allowed to get away with this crap is it encourages them to do it again.
They need consequences to stop it continuing.
Quotejust a wanker
Love it Kel ....... tell it like it is!!!:laugh2:
Sometimes people set out from the start to try to screw you. We had someone make a particular (and quite unusual) request for proper packaging for some rolls he bought a few months back. "Just in case they split". And of course when he got them he complained about them being split. He was the first person in hundreds of packages who complained about poor packaging. And I can tell you PPH agonises over her packaging. If there's someone who takes more care with their packaging than she does I'd love to meet them.
Clearly in this case, and our guy with the "split" rolls they set out to try to screw the seller. Shame on them.
Yeah I second that Mark, PP packs stuff really well and I commend her on the top work :hi:
I try and pack stuff well :)
I commend her on all her business, really good to deal with :good:
Even if the coin is a fake, he would have no grounds to go to the police. Caveat Emptor.
Assuming he could find a Federal Police officer to report the crime (he might find one at an airport), they are not likely to listen to him.
Steve, it might feel bad to receive negative feedback, but the worst you should concern yourself with is having to deal with someone who is clearly out to deceive. I would ban him from as many communication channels as possible and not entertain any further contact.
Having been an Ebayer for 10+ years I can tell you now that you should close your paypal account or unlink you CCard and bank account from it ASAP, because if he lodges a dispute Paypal WILL take money out of your account, I have had it done to me over very similar circumstances, the only way I got my money back was by taking him to the ATM after paying him a visit
Darryn
hum
I was thinking about that this afternoon & how Paypal can just waltz in and take the dough
OK here is what you need to do to save your backside, screen shot your images and your ebay listing, screen shot his photos of the coin and his ebay listing, highlight the imperfections on your coin and note those exact same imperfections on his coin he sold, this will be needed if Paypal come after you for a refund.
I have already saved all of his photos if you need them, though by his grammer he don't sound real smart and probably wouldn't think to remiove the images from his auction
I don't think you will haveanything to worry about This is what I am going to send him, I have a mate who works in the fraud squad with the CIB for Qld police, play golf with him 2-3 times a month, I am sure he will like an open and shut case that would be solved with the inspection of images of your ebay sale and that of his a few days later??
This is what I propose to send the scammer if you have no objections I'll send it tonight?
Just curious as to why you left that fellow negative feedback about the WAVY 20c peice, I have looked at the images of the coin he sold you and it has a chip in the rim straight above the 2, then in the top of the 2 it has a little nick in it plus a few very obvious chips in the rim.
Then the 20c wavy coin you sold a few days later coincidently has the exact same chip above the 2 in the exact same spot, and the 2 has yep you quessed it the EXACT same little nick in it, I have also spoted about 12 other little marks on the coin you said was fake but are the exact same marks on the coin you sold, quite a few on the rim of the coin, clearly you have just sold the coin you got and now claim it to be fake, and now you threaten him for a refund and to go to the police. Do it, go on do it, because he has all the pictures of his and your coin and it will be you who gets charged with fraud, I have mate who works in the fraud squad with Qld police if you want his phone number?
if I am looking at the right buyer/seller
he had an 'unsold' lot - 2 x PROOF 1964 pennies
start price $19.99
a number of his listings/sales looks quite suspicious
I reckon this bloke is a real piece of work
well I think we should all send him the same email so he knows that we are all together on this and agree it's real and he's the fake :good: what would you think if you got 20 emails the same but from all different people and see what ebay has to say about that..we to can use modern tech to help us :)
The threat of police being called by the purchaser of this coin is basically a lie.
The LAST thing a scammer wants is police involvement.
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='17867' dateline='1371035894'Having been an Ebayer for 10+ years I can tell you now that you should close your paypal account or unlink you CCard and bank account from it ASAP, because if he lodges a dispute Paypal WILL take money out of your account, I have had it done to me over very similar circumstances, the only way I got my money back was by taking him to the ATM after paying him a visit
Darryn
Funny you mentioned that. I removed my Credit Card from Paypal and changed the link to an account I know has no money in it the same night he complained. Happy to refund his money if he is found to be in the right but it's not looking good for him.
:laugh2: good on ya Stevo..more than one way to skin a cat :good:
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='17875' dateline='1371037250'OK here is what you need to do to save your backside, screen shot your images and your ebay listing, screen shot his photos of the coin and his ebay listing, highlight the imperfections on your coin and note those exact same imperfections on his coin he sold, this will be needed if Paypal come after you for a refund.
I have already saved all of his photos if you need them, though by his grammer he don't sound real smart and probably wouldn't think to remiove the images from his auction
I don't think you will haveanything to worry about This is what I am going to send him, I have a mate who works in the fraud squad with the CIB for Qld police, play golf with him 2-3 times a month, I am sure he will like an open and shut case that would be solved with the inspection of images of your ebay sale and that of his a few days later??
This is what I propose to send the scammer if you have no objections I'll send it tonight?
Just curious as to why you left that fellow negative feedback about the WAVY 20c peice, I have looked at the images of the coin he sold you and it has a chip in the rim straight above the 2, then in the top of the 2 it has a little nick in it plus a few very obvious chips in the rim.
Then the 20c wavy coin you sold a few days later coincidently has the exact same chip above the 2 in the exact same spot, and the 2 has yep you quessed it the EXACT same little nick in it, I have also spoted about 12 other little marks on the coin you said was fake but are the exact same marks on the coin you sold, quite a few on the rim of the coin, clearly you have just sold the coin you got and now claim it to be fake, and now you threaten him for a refund and to go to the police. Do it, go on do it, because he has all the pictures of his and your coin and it will be you who gets charged with fraud, I have mate who works in the fraud squad with Qld police if you want his phone number?
Hi EH. Thank you for the thought but I am deliberately being nice and not threatening to report him for a reason. I posted in another thread that I recently retired after working for the same employer for 39 years. I actually retired as a Police Inspector with the Qld Police and did 10 years as a Detective, 10 as an OIC and 10 as an Inspector with the Ethical Standards.
I really am just letting him did a deeper hole for himself. I'm aware of the possibility of an Attempted False Pretence charge, there's also an offence in Qld of threatening people and one of criminal defamation (but that's very rarely used). More likely though I believe the Internet uses our telephone network to communicate and this is a "Carriage service" and would just be looking at possibly something under the CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (TELECOMMUNICATIONS OFFENCES AND OTHER MEASURES) ACT (NO. 2) 2004 - SCHEDULE 1
Eg
474.17 Using a carriage service to menace, harass or cause offence
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person uses a carriage service; and
(b) the person does so in a way (whether by the method of use or the content of a communication, or both) that reasonable persons would regard as being, in all the circumstances, menacing, harassing or offensive. I haven't researched it, was not a Federal POlice Officer and have never used that charge so I'd have to look into it a bit further as an alternative.
So let him go on with the abuse and threats, his emails are already stored in the messages log on Ebay and they're not going away. He can't improve his position and it's only going to get worse and after he shows his coin to a dealer principal today he is either going to pull his head in or again go on the attack. See how it pans out.
:laugh2: what a cack..sounds like ya got him by the short and crulies now, that'll teach the bastard :hi:
ROFL! I LOVE IT! Wish I could be there to see the look on his face when he eventually comes unglued. Go Steve, you're a LEGEND! :)
I'd love to see his face when/if he finds out who he's been abusing..love it when a plan comes together :good:
It was lookin a bit iffy at the start but this has turned into a ripper (good news) story and thanks so much for sharing Stevo after a few bad ones over the last week..well done mate :)
Looks like he picked the wrong person to try a scam on. Talk about poetic justice. Hopefully he'll keep up with the attempted scam and just dig his hole deeper and deeper until he's buried himself. Serves the mongrel right. Go Steve!
Just thinkin how funny it would be to meet him at the station an to see the look on his face when you said g'day to ya old work mates, price less (please take a pic for me or get CC fotage hehe)..this is just brilliant so you must keep us informed now please Stevo
and this is a really good lesson on "nothing is ever as it seems" :winkextra:
Wow I'm late onto this one but I can't wait to hear how it all turns out! We're all behind you Steveqld, get him/her/them!
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='17958' dateline='1371081776'I'd love to see his face when/if he finds out who he's been abusing..love it when a plan comes together :good:
It was lookin a bit iffy at the start but this has turned into a ripper (good news) story and thanks so much for sharing Stevo after a few bad ones over the last week..well done mate :)
There have been a few bad reports on Ebay experiences and the criminal law is a very poor tool for Ebay scams but there are some good times. Most retirees have old war stories.
I've only ever used a criminal complaint once in the last 12 years. About 10 years ago I purchased a year proof set for a bit over $100. It didn't arrive and a few emails came "I'll send it tomorrow", "It's in the mail" etc then after a few weeks there was no contact. I was aware he lived on the Gold Coast and "became aware" that he was an active fraud offender with a criminal history so I made a complaint.
A couple of months later he was evicted from the Casino and arrested by Detectives who rang me. He was then "questioned" about my missing coins. The next day I got an email from him apologizing and explaining the "He didn't know about it", "Someone else had been using his Ebay ID" etc and asking me to withdraw my complaint (which I didn't do). Within a week I received a brand new set that would have cost him a fortune and a bonus silver proof coin for my inconvenience. He wouldn't have had the coins to start with so he must have spent a few hours trying to track them down.
See happy endings can happen (No, not the other sort of happy ending).
Steve,
I really hope this one gets nailed.
I cant understand your statement that "criminal law is a very poor tool for Ebay scams". I would expect that ebay should make things really easy.
Everything is in writing (not "he said", "she said") and names and addresses are all included.
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='18058' dateline='1371125928'Steve,
I really hope this one gets nailed.
I cant understand your statement that "criminal law is a very poor tool for Ebay scams". I would expect that ebay should make things really easy.
Everything is in writing (not "he said", "she said") and names and addresses are all included.
The impediments for Ebay scams are that they are mostly frauds. To prove a fraud charge you have to prove the intent of the seller at the time of the transaction was to defraud the buyer. It is often difficult to prove what someone was thinking at some time in the past. A couple of examples that you would think would be walk up starts but I think would be problematic:
Examples provided - removed from post and PM to Ozcoins. The examples should not be generally available in the public arena.
It's not impossible to disprove a persons state of mind but it is difficult. The system would be ideal if people didn't lie but they do.
Secondly you have to consider costs. Most Ebay purchases are not for large amounts. Not sure of the current position but often the accused in dishonesty charges has the election to take the matter before a judge and jury and those trials cost $50,000 a day to run. Do we really want to spend $50,000 - $70,000 of taxpayers money prosecuting someone for a $100 offence when the probable outcome would be a slap on the wrist and no conviction recorded. I suspect for a $100 item the DPP would not even proceed with the charge.
In my instance several of the offences I mentioned would enable an offender to go to a Judge and Jury. The charge I suggested is a minor charge, would probably be investigated by a junior Constable, is a straightforward case of deciding whether a "reasonable person" would find the recorded conversations were abusive and threatening or not (what the person who said them or the person they were said to thinks is irrelevant). They would only be dealt with in the lower courts at minimal cost to everyone and a favourable outcome would get the message across.
The current system allows Ebay to say "You want to allege a crime then have the Police investigate it". The investigators say "We can't prove intent so you use the existing Ebay/Paypal dispute mechanisms".
Although this view is probably a bit on the pessimistic side I can see why individuals become disillusioned. IN reality the percentage of Ebay transactions that are dishonest is probably much less than 1%.
Just a quick one. Things went very quiet from my mate after it's mention here. No emails from him, he didn't keep an appointment with his dealer to have it reappraised, no transaction dispute, etc. Ebay is aware but I won't hear anything from them for "privacy reasons".
This must be the most travelled coin in Australia. As per previous go234coins sold it to riss079 on 5/6/13 who left him feedback and received the coin on 6/6/13.
Look what was listed on Gumtree on that same day and the contact number belongs to go234coins.
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/beenleigh/other-antiques-art-collectables/1966-australian-wavvy-20cent-piece-coin/1021075143
Even used the same photos and is $205 less than Riss079 allegedly paid for it. Even less that go234coins paid me for it. Obviously he never sold it to Riss079 and he's just trying to offload the coin.
If anyone wants a cheap wavy base offer him $100 and if he's desperate enough he might take it but then again I wouldn't trust it.
but will ya get the coin Stevo or is that another scam :scratch_one-s_head:
just thinking, do you think he'd get up set if I sent him an email asking if it's the same wavy 20 he tried to scam a cop mate of mine on ebay and is it all so the same coin you sold riss079..he might become a little paranoid :laugh2: bloody good find mate, ya on to him :good:
I actually sent that email the other night, from my ebay acc, I've not heard from him either. Quite clear he is a dunce, but I will ring him about the coin? I'd like to rock up in person and see what sort of character he is??
I think he's gone to water and realised he's been found out??
I think so EH, Stevo put the wind fair up him
Quote from: 'error hunter' pid='18508' dateline='1371468492'I actually sent that email the other night, from my ebay acc, I've not heard from him either. Quite clear he is a dunce, but I will ring him about the coin? I'd like to rock up in person and see what sort of character he is??
I think he's gone to water and realised he's been found out??
I had the same thought just to confirm it's the same coin and wouldn't have told him that I was the one he bought it from but when I put it to my wife I was slapped down. Oh well.
Gumtree ad taken down this morning as "Sold". I hope someone got a bargain.:yahoo::yahoo:
What's the chance someone else got conned?
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='18529' dateline='1371508394'What's the chance someone else got conned?
99.9%
Quote from: 'Ozcoins' pid='18529' dateline='1371508394'What's the chance someone else got conned?
Only if he switched coins otherwise it was a reasonable buy. Not much gets sold on Gumtree and it's a bit of a coincidence that he took it down within hours of the link being put on here. Someone may have given him a serve.
Anyway I hope no-one lost out other than my buyer. Definitely off my list for Christmas invitations this year.
That's what I was thinking.
Someone so unethical is unlikely to do the right thing.
If it was listed cheap, it may have been "sold" to 10 different people and none of them will recieve it.
Steve, my attention was drawn to the last line in this description ......
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271226463003? (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271226463003?)
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='18792' dateline='1371767999'Steve, my attention was drawn to the last line in this description ......
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271226463003? (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271226463003?)
Many thanks. I see go234coins fb rating went backwards when someone recently left -ve fb
"Sent me a different note to the one I bought in worse grade."
Karma..............
Come on Stevo lets go nut this mongrel 'cause he needs it bad :winkextra: this bloke is a real piece of work so please if ya can nail him to the wall do so :) it's these people that are stuffin it for the rest of us..UNBELIEVABLE and thanks for bringing it to our attention Uni, well spotted mate :good:
Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='18798' dateline='1371769143'Come on Stevo lets go nut this mongrel 'cause he needs it bad :winkextra: this bloke is a real piece of work so please if ya can nail him to the wall do so :) it's these people that are stuffin it for the rest of us..UNBELIEVABLE and thanks for bringing it to our attention Uni, well spotted mate :good:
I agree. At least we all know to keep an eye out for him now! I don't know what he is gaining by not leaving positive feedback though, he might as well as ebay sellers have no power over the feedback option anyway. He is just digging himself a bigger hole and throwing up my red flags to buyers (which is good but he obviously isn't very bright!)
I'm really not paranoid about this bloke but just keep bumping into him.
I know this is very very scary but the phone number for this dealer belongs to go234coins:
*** LInk deleted by OP ****
His spiel:
AT LAST (deleted location) HAS ITS OWN COIN AND ANTIUQES DEALER TOO SERVICES ALL THE COLLECTER IN THE (deleted area) AREA AND NOT JUST OFFER GOOD RELIABLE SERVICE WE OFFER THE BEST PRICES FOR ALL AUSTRALIAN COLLECTABLES AND PAY CASH TOO YOU YOU WILL NOT FIND A MORE HARD WORKING COIN COLLECTER THAN MY SELF AS I JUST LOVE MY WORK AND THIS IS WHY AFTER 10 YEARS IN THE COIN AND NOTE FILED I AW KNOW OFFERING THE BEST PRICE TO THE (Deleted area) PEOPLE AND WILL GIVE THEM GOOD SERIVICE THEY DESERVE I AM OPEN 6 DAYS A WEEK FROM 8.30 AM TILL 5.00 PM MONDAY TOO SATADAY AND FOR THE PERSON HOW CANNOT MAKE IT TOO THE SHOP I AM OFFERING A HOME SERVICE TOO MY CLIENTS AT NO CHARGE SO IF I CANT MAKE YOU HAPPY AT LEST I CAN GIVE YOU GOOD ADVICE ON YOUR COIN AND AUSTRALIAN BANK NOTES NEEDS THE BIG GRAND OPENING IS HAPPENING THIS SATADAY 1/6/2013 SATADAY COME AND HAE A GOOD LOOK THOURGH BROWSE THIS A GREAT DAY THE ADRESS IS SHOP (deleted address) THIS SATADAY GRAND OPENING (deleted business name) 8.30 AM COME AND SEE THE BOY AND HAVE A YARN AND A GOOD OLD CHAT SEE YA THERE BYE PLENTY OF STOCK AND FREE SAUSGE SIZZLE SEE YA THERE
Please tell me he is not a member of ANDA.
May even go along for a free sausage but not sure what we could chat about.
me fink yu no vis boke steo :mocking: gotta be the same bloke, just lovin ya work mate :good:
From what I remember of Logan, he's clearly a member of the local Mensa chapter. :)
Yeah, yeah, I know that's a bigoted comment, but its not like its Moe or anything, right? I should be safe... ;)
Mark,
Alas it's probably time to lock this thread for any further entries as it has run it's course.
His latest Gumtree ad identifies his business and I wouldn't like anyone to make a comment which would give him some comeback against the forum or members.
I think we've all got the message and can make up our own minds about whether we want to do business with him.
if anyone wants the business name then they can PM me.