What do you guys an gals think about the marking near the rim?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/sz925x.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/a10cjo.jpg)
Matt
someone has drawn around the rim with a grey lead pencil :P
or a coining machine
Quote from: 'Australian coin' pid='14450' dateline='1368266172'someone has drawn around the rim with a grey lead pencil :P
or a coining machine
I thought it looked like lead pencil at first I mean it could still be that but it looks like a bit of coin or laminate is raising, I'm confusing myself here a little lol so I will post the same pics with the parts I'm talking about.
Matt
(http://i42.tinypic.com/29gdipt.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/29mxeuo.jpg)
Or it could just be some kind of scratch:dodgy:
Coin counting or rolling machines leave these marks Matt.
Quote from: 'accumulator' pid='14456' dateline='1368268877'Coin counting or rolling machines leave these marks Matt.
Understood, thanks
No, they're not roll marks. I've stared at a few of these coins for lengthy periods trying to figure out what was going on, to no avail.
They're not scratches, and they're not a double rim like say those 2008 5¢. The ghost rim (for want of a better term) seems to be very slightly indented, and a darker colour. Almost like a lead pencil mark, but its not.
Happens mostly on 1984 and 1985 $1. Not many, perhaps 1% tops, but certainly enough for it not to be PMD.
Roll marks on the other hand take out the full width of the lettering. Completely different.
Have you found any that haven't seen extensive circulation? All coins that I've found with that mark seem to have seen a lot of use for whatever reason.
Ive only seen heavily circulated ones. Im of the PMD opinion.
CONFUSED haha jokes jokes, I'm just adding it to the list of things to search more information on.
I love seeing how everyone has a different opinion to what happened to what coin, I have noticed that lead pencil looking mark before on previous coins but I can't think if I have seen the mark on any good looking coins.
What books are out there on Australian error coins?
Matt
Hi Mattgold, the coin below was really hard for me to determine. I must have taken 100 pics of it and it was still hard to tell. See the faint ring even on the right hand side it went basically all the way around. The end Dollars and Tree etc obliterated ...... roller machine ..... (PS: Not meaning to take over the post, just add to it).
[attachment=1905]
There are no good books on Australian error coins Matt. There are two that are a catalogue of differebt predecinal varieties and errors but theyre not comprehensive or very descriptive by any means. The Australian Coin Blog has some fantastic error articles that you can learn a lot from.
Alright so in the jar it goes for when I might need $2 one day lol..
Thanks for that Enworb, I will suss it out mate.
Matt
Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='14497' dateline='1368317084'See the faint ring even on the right hand side it went basically all the way around. The end Dollars and Tree etc obliterated ...... roller machine .....
Hmm, I see three things going on with this coin.
1. The ring on the left, which is the one we've been discussing.
2. The wider half ring on the right.
3. The missing tree and lettering.
2 and 3 may well be roll marks. Or 3 may be a die fill or wear, and 2 may be a roll mark or something else. Its really hard to tell on a coin this worn. But I don't believe 1 looks anything like a roll mark either way.
And no, I haven't seen these marks on high grade coins. Then again, I haven't seen planchet flaws on high grade coins either. That may be because by the time they present themselves, these coins have all had a hard life in both cases. I really don't know why this is so, but would love to know.
Here's what would have been a lovely 1982 5¢, with a pristine obverse complete with die scratches trough the date, totally ruined by a rolling machine! :(
(http://goo.gl/HXFKs)
Though hard to see in photos, the scrape is not uniform, and comprises lots of individual scratches. As I've said, nothing at all like the ring in the OP.
Although I have no idea what causes these marks around the outside edges of coins, I don't believe it's from a coin rolling machine. I often get coins with the typical scrapes from a coin rolling machine, but they're much further in, not basically squashed right up against the edge like these are.
This is one of the most prominent I've seen, and I have 2 of them, virtually identical. Coin rolling machine scrapes are usually through the legend, and you can see them as 'circular' marks, but I doubt that any rolling machine put these marks on this coin. This has obviously been in circulation, but has not suffered too badly.
10c 1999 C50 Db Legend + Wire Edge Multi.jpg
(http://i42.tinypic.com/vsj7fn.jpg)
Going by this extreme close-up, I think it's pretty obvious these marks were not made by a coin rolling machine. Perhaps a badly worn die develops damage around the edges. :dontknow: :scratch_one-s_head:
10c 1999 C50 Db Legend + Wire Edge Extreme Close-up.jpg
(http://i40.tinypic.com/alhegi.jpg)
This is the 2nd of them, and it does actually have damage from a coin rolling machine, across the bottom of the legend, but noticeably nowhere near the edge.
10c 1999 C54v2 Db Legend + Wire Edge Duo.jpg (Rolling Machine damage)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/xmj18o.jpg)
Very good pictures nancy. The difference i see between say the 2008 5c double rim and the $1 coins is that the double ring is present on UNC coins but on $1 coins it is not. Its almost as if it develops which leads me to think the $1 coins are PMD. I think your coins and the 2008 5c must have something to do with the die.
Great closeup! It almost looks like the metal has been chiselled away with a really tiny pick. A couple of things to note.... These type of rings are different to the previously discussed sort, which don't seem to exhibit these marks. Both of these coins, as well as the ones I've seen of this type, have doubling as well, whereas the smooth variety do not. And as for die damage, we can rule that out, as the rings would be raised if that were the case.
Whatever caused this has to do with the planchet rather than the die I think. Stress fractures perhaps?